All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Playing Jordie ahead of Jordan looks even worse with hindsight, but you can see the logic to it at the time.
You can? Can you explain it to me as I never understood it?
Foster has done some good stuff which he deserves credit for, but he's also done some weird stuff. I'm not bagging him as I think he inherited a bit of a disaster, but he's still on probation for me.
Jordan had never played a test. We had no easy warm-up games to ease him in. And Fozzie was a new, ender-pressure head coach desperate to win, so Jordie seemed like a safe option.
As it turned out, Jordan looks like he didn't need those training wheels, but maybe he's benefited from being held back.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew it’s not as if this sort of thing hasn’t happened before though.
**Flavell at 6, he’s no blindside, he’s a lock, but he’s got pace
What is Jerry Collins playing number 8? That’s not his position.
**
Mils on the wing? Mils at centre? Mils back at fullback?Dagg on the wing? Dagg back at fullback?
Bender on the wing? Bender at centre? Bender at fullback? Bender back on the wing?
And you could go through a litany of props that were used under Mitchell, Henry, Hansen - where the response was either “what’s he done?” to “whatever happened to such and such, I thought he looked alright after his first shot off the bench”, never to see him much again.
Maybe our internet plans are better now and we can write more about it 😉
They both played loads at six and eight respectively or is my memory that bad ?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B Scott Barret is not an experienced 6 at super level, let alone test level. My memory is shit, but has he even had an adequate game at 6 for the AB's?
I'd still rather have him than any other option if the criteria is someone who can cover lock.
If we were just picking an available 6, I'd be happier with Tom Robinson - but, I don't want a bar of him covering lock.
jesus...is that how far we've fallen...one of the key criteria for a position is the ability to cover another position for 20mins? how about just being the best fucking 6 in the country and we'll stick another lock on the bench?
Actually, I was specifically responding to your criteria. You were the one who said:
exactly, if we need a lock the SB is ya man....if we need a 6 that can step into lock for the final 20mins...there are better options, this is just fozzie getting blinded by just getting who he considers the best 23 players on the pitch without considering other factors
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The weather forecast is looking pretty good
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B Scott Barret is not an experienced 6 at super level, let alone test level. My memory is shit, but has he even had an adequate game at 6 for the AB's?
I'd still rather have him than any other option if the criteria is someone who can cover lock.
If we were just picking an available 6, I'd be happier with Tom Robinson - but, I don't want a bar of him covering lock.
jesus...is that how far we've fallen...one of the key criteria for a position is the ability to cover another position for 20mins? how about just being the best fucking 6 in the country and we'll stick another lock on the bench?
Actually, I was specifically responding to your criteria. You were the one who said:
exactly, if we need a lock the SB is ya man....if we need a 6 that can step into lock for the final 20mins...there are better options, this is just fozzie getting blinded by just getting who he considers the best 23 players on the pitch without considering other factors
thought it was clear what i was saying, but obviously not....if we're looking for a 6 that can cover lock...you still pick a bloody six, you dont move a lock
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@Kiwiwomble Well, not to belabour the point - I think the idea of having a blindside who covers lock is probably fool's gold.
We learned in Chicago that Kaino wasn't up to the job and if he couldn't do it almost no-one can. Except Pieter-Steph du Toit!
But, if we're going to field someone to do that job, then in my mind Scott Barrett IS the best option.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
But, if we're going to field someone to do that job, then in my mind Scott Barrett IS the best option.
Barrett has said himself that pushing in the scrum takes more out your legs at lock, so you could end up blunting the strengths of a mobile 6.
"You actually have an extra gear because you are not right in the engine room of the scrum".
Defending from a scrum will be the biggest adjustment, but work around the field is similar as I don't think he will be in the wider channels like Ioane often is.
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@Bovidae Yeah - I think that Scott is covering lock is a bit incidental to his selection.
They need a third lineout option and they don't want to risk PGS on debut.
If it's a close game, I'd expect Scott, Retallick and Whitelock all to play big minutes.
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Fozzie probably got told at the end of year review the tight 5 needs improving. Fozzie had a stroke of genius and created a tight 6 and 2 loosies.
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If experience counts, can we get Alan Whetton out of retirement. He’s only 62 and four centimetres shorter than SB.
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look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Yeah, I suspect that is what is happening and SB will play nice and tight. I like SB, he has a good work ethic, big motor and is a great lineout option. I just prefer specialists in their positions. The "pictures" the coaches constantly talk about are different between positions and expecting players to quickly adapt just doesn't seem to work that well historically.
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@mariner4life Yeah - as a one-off it's fine. Hopefully the plan for the future is Akira, while we develop PGS.
Hard not to agree with @Tim, that it's pretty concerning to see the number of players from the pack for the 2019 semi still involved (and you KNOW Moody and Nepo would be starting if they were fit). Especially when you recall that we got bullied pretty badly, and that most of our guys will have got older rather than better.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Exactly, if we have a new pattern that wants two big bodies spread across three zones (e.g., Prop, lock; Prop, lock; Hooker, lock) with two of those on the edges being a bit more mobile, then I can see how this might fly:
For example, Edge 1 = Taylor, Retallick; Middle = Bower, Whitelock; Edge 2 = Ofa; Barrett.
But, that could/should indicate some change in pattern/pods. If so, what would be the change?
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Exactly, if we have a new pattern that wants two big bodies spread across three zones (e.g., Prop, lock; Prop, lock; Hooker, lock) with two of those on the edges being a bit more mobile, then I can see how this might fly:
For example, Edge 1 = Taylor, Retallick; Middle = Bower, Whitelock; Edge 2 = Ofa; Barrett.
But, that could/should indicate some change in pattern/pods. If so, what would be the change?
we've been trying to play with structure?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Exactly, if we have a new pattern that wants two big bodies spread across three zones (e.g., Prop, lock; Prop, lock; Hooker, lock) with two of those on the edges being a bit more mobile, then I can see how this might fly:
For example, Edge 1 = Taylor, Retallick; Middle = Bower, Whitelock; Edge 2 = Ofa; Barrett.
But, that could/should indicate some change in pattern/pods. If so, what would be the change?
we've been trying to play with structure?
yes. flat off 9 or flat off 10.
passes to groups of flat players meaning shit cleans.
wait for counter attack.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Exactly, if we have a new pattern that wants two big bodies spread across three zones (e.g., Prop, lock; Prop, lock; Hooker, lock) with two of those on the edges being a bit more mobile, then I can see how this might fly:
For example, Edge 1 = Taylor, Retallick; Middle = Bower, Whitelock; Edge 2 = Ofa; Barrett.
But, that could/should indicate some change in pattern/pods. If so, what would be the change?
we've been trying to play with structure?
yes. flat off 9 or flat off 10.
passes to groups of flat players meaning shit cleans.
wait for counter attack.
I wonder if we are thinking to change up from the 2-3-2-1 and the pod with the flat pass, to something new.
Or, maybe the red box and 2nd '2' is too light and they want a bigger body there?
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as with everything, the "how" of any "setup" is far less important than the "why".
Why are we spread across the field? who or what are we trying to isolate? Phases without purpose are useless.
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@mariner4life god i hope thats why theyve picked SB, more phases in tight to draw in some of the rush defenders before going wide quick
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@mariner4life cos they'd look silly if they were all lined up in a conga-line!
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
as with everything, the "how" of any "setup" is far less important than the "why".
Why are we spread across the field? who or what are we trying to isolate? Phases without purpose are useless.
If we move back towards a 1-3-3-1 or a pattern with bigger bodies in the middle, we could be trying to be less about going wide and more about going through them? That seems the way to breakdown the rush, so wha pattern would fit to do that? A tight six could be the right set of people, but I wonder about how they plan to do that.
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
meanwhile the fern loses it lol
thats the best bit!
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Something I noticed in the Māori game was the Irish were very reluctant to put too many bodies in the ruck, I'm assuming to get the D line full of bodies. They were also good at slowing down the ball at the base of the ruck.
I think the Māori did it once and is happening more in SR is instead of jackling is putting players into the ruck for a counter ruck. If we play tight and commit players to the ruck then the Irish will be forced to counter this which may open up space.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
meanwhile the fern loses it lol
thats the best bit!
right now fozzie deliberately trying to troll the fern makes as much sense as anything else
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
meanwhile the fern loses it lol
thats the best bit!
right now fozzie deliberately trying to troll the fern makes as much sense as anything else
I now suspect the guy recently banned was Foster, the ultimate pay back
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Something I noticed in the Māori game was the Irish were very reluctant to put too many bodies in the ruck, I'm assuming to get the D line full of bodies. They were also good at slowing down the ball at the base of the ruck.
I think the Māori did it once and is happening more in SR is instead of jackling is putting players into the ruck for a counter ruck. If we play tight and commit players to the ruck then the Irish will be forced to counter this which may open up space.
I think lots of countries have worked that out, we're obsessed with fast ball so they "give" it to use at the first or second ruck looking to isolate the 3rd and 4th phase ball, we think we're stretching them but theyre standing out there waiting for us
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
meanwhile the fern loses it lol
thats the best bit!
right now fozzie deliberately trying to troll the fern makes as much sense as anything else
I now suspect the guy recently banned was Foster, the ultimate pay back
Mods did say they traced the IP address or something...to NZR headquarters i wonder?
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
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@Kiwiwomble what else does he have to do this week?
He's off work, he got someone in to cover while he is isolating, only so much Netflix you can watch before trolling numpties on TSF takes over!
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Wild Sotutu can't even get on the bench. Clearly the best 8 in the comp with Savea also behind Valetini in third.
Barrett at 6 has got to be parody.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble what else does he have to do this week?
He's off work, he got someone in to cover while he is isolating, only so much Netflix you can watch before trolling numpties on TSF takes over!
He probably should be reading coaching for dummies and rapid weight loss books.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble what else does he have to do this week?
He's off work, he got someone in to cover while he is isolating, only so much Netflix you can watch before trolling numpties on TSF takes over!
He probably should be reading coaching for dummies and rapid weight loss books.
Fat jokes never get old
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble what else does he have to do this week?
He's off work, he got someone in to cover while he is isolating, only so much Netflix you can watch before trolling numpties on TSF takes over!
He probably should be reading coaching for dummies and rapid weight loss books.
Fat jokes never get old
no lightening up on the fat jokes then?
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble what else does he have to do this week?
He's off work, he got someone in to cover while he is isolating, only so much Netflix you can watch before trolling numpties on TSF takes over!
He probably should be reading coaching for dummies and rapid weight loss books.
Fat jokes never get old
no lightening up on the fat jokes then?
Only if he lightens up I guess
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble what else does he have to do this week?
He's off work, he got someone in to cover while he is isolating, only so much Netflix you can watch before trolling numpties on TSF takes over!
He probably should be reading coaching for dummies and rapid weight loss books.
Fat jokes never get old
no lightening up on the fat jokes then?
Only if he lightens up I guess
that might be your finest moment
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble what else does he have to do this week?
He's off work, he got someone in to cover while he is isolating, only so much Netflix you can watch before trolling numpties on TSF takes over!
He probably should be reading coaching for dummies and rapid weight loss books.
Fat jokes never get old
no lightening up on the fat jokes then?
Only if he lightens up I guess
that might be your finest moment
I don’t watch enough Super Rugby to make many serious contributions so if there’s an opportunity for a lame gag I have to take it.
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So, I needed a reminder of what Ennor has achieved the last few years and couldn't find any highlights, does someone have the link?
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Something I noticed in the Māori game was the Irish were very reluctant to put too many bodies in the ruck, I'm assuming to get the D line full of bodies. They were also good at slowing down the ball at the base of the ruck.
I think the Māori did it once and is happening more in SR is instead of jackling is putting players into the ruck for a counter ruck. If we play tight and commit players to the ruck then the Irish will be forced to counter this which may open up space.
Irish D tends to be all 14, on their feet, rushing hard, with only one sweeper. I didn't notice if they are still have one sweeper with the Maori, 50:22 was supposed to discourage that. Did anyone notice their sweeper set up on defence
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