All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test
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@mariner4life agree on both counts.
SB is in good form and I like the physicality he brings, but he's a lock so should play there, and for fuck sakes he is a liability with the cards. The shoulder he put on the Blues player during SR was pure filth and at the time I was comfortable if he didn't make the ABs based on that. The AB coaches really need to sort that part of his game out, as he's cost us before and is going to cost us again.
And Ardie, holy shit would he be a match winner as a super sub. Coming on for 30 odd mins per game and just wrecking havoc would win us a lot of games. And with a world class 8 in Sotutu waiting in the wings, we are really missing a trick not starting him with Ardie on the bench. We have a player that would allow us to use our bench as a genuine weapon and we don't do it, which is frustrating as hell.
Can you imagine as the opposition looking up at the 55min mark and see Ardie and Samisoni coming on fresh and fired up? The bench can be a weapon for us Fozzie, use it!!
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@mariner4life it was just nice for our pack to not be bullied, and we were more direct.
Rugby is a fairly simple game if you want it to be, I think sometimes we try to be too cute and over complicate things.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life it was just nice for our pack to not be bullied, and we were more direct.
Rugby is a fairly simple game if you want it to be, I think sometimes we try to be too cute and over complicate things.
yeah, i feel like every time NZ needs a reset all we do is go out and bash people for a bit.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life it was just nice for our pack to not be bullied, and we were more direct.
Rugby is a fairly simple game if you want it to be, I think sometimes we try to be too cute and over complicate things.
"Up the guts" then "feed the backs".
Vastly underrated advice from every sideline supporter ever
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
on players that i whinged about pre-game
SBarrett very good, but also really dumb. I still think we lacked a bit in the loose from playing a lock there, and would be happy to see SB starting in his usual position. I have never said that before.
That said, he has some dumb fucking moments, and for all the "storm in a teacup" he had two instances i reckon he would want again because even his face knew he had put himself in a dumb spot. And that's without the superman dives over the ruck. Calm the fuck down sonA Savea showed his absolute worth and also illustrated why i don't like him starting at 8 all in the same game. His 2nd half was majestic and he's a fucking menace out wide. That bloke is a point of difference, and i swear him playing the last 30 minutes as an all-energy impact sub makes us a very dangerous proposition.
also agreed, the game confirmed things i already believed rather than changed anything, savea is a great 7 or a world beating sub...but not a starting 8 and SB is a great mobile lock...but also always on the verge of getting a card...which does make me wonder if hes a guy you want in a RWC playoff
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@mariner4life and I think managing the guys like Taylor, Whitelock, Retallick, Cane is important too, utilising guys like Dalton, Hoskins, Vaii, Coles etc who are all capable starters to start or off the bench rather than running these guys into the ground will help too.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life and I think managing the guys like Taylor, Whitelock, Retallick, Cane is important too, utilising guys like Dalton, Hoskins, Vaii, Coles etc who are all capable starters to start or off the bench rather than running these guys into the ground will help too.
yeah, sort of
I definitely don't want wholesale changes every friggen week. Rotating 1 a week, better use of the bench should be enough.
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I think we saw some new things in the game, which I liked. They seems to be passing to the outside forward of the pod which leaves the inside man as a big runner, the outsides to distribute, and the loop man behind. It was quite Crusaders style and I think it is a good way to use our edge runners in particular. So, if they insist on starting Ardie (and after that performance, it won’t change), they need to put the ball in his hands on the edges more.
As a pattern, if we can have Ardie on one side, Akira on the other, and keep the locks and Cane through the middle, perhaps with a Taukei’aho in there, we can have ball runners across the field and options to use others, such as Leicester on the inside ball.
I’m not a Bower fan, but for me he was the big mover last week. He dealt with Furlong well, who is in the top three THs in the world, and was nice and busy with his carries. He didn’t get much ground but was doing the work around the ruck that we’d hope.
My surprise package was Ta’avao. I’m soooo uncomfortable with his scrummaging but he was excellent last week. If he can hold up his side under pressure, I can see why they want him there, as he has a big motor and can do a lot in traffic.
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taniwharugbyreplied to mariner4life on 3 Jul 2022, 23:44 last edited by taniwharugby 3 Jul 2022, 23:44
@mariner4life oh no, I reckon they can manage them off the bench, I'd be thinking somethign like moving SB to lock, Vai to bench, Akira to 6, HOskins to bench over PGS, Coles to bench, start ST.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life oh no, I reckon they can manage them off the bench, I'd be thinking somethign like moving SB to lock, Vai to bench, Akira to 6, HOskins to bench over PGS, Coles to bench, start ST.
I think they’ll continue to use ST off the bench with maybe a start against the Argies or OZ. Taylor or Coles to start
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life oh no, I reckon they can manage them off the bench, I'd be thinking somethign like moving SB to lock, Vai to bench, Akira to 6, HOskins to bench over PGS, Coles to bench, start ST.
I think they’ll continue to use ST off the bench with maybe a start against the Argies or OZ. Taylor or Coles to start
In my mind Foster will continue status quo unless something forces his hand..eg injury, supsension etc . I will be pleasantly surprised if it does change, but I do not share the same optimism
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
A Savea showed his absolute worth and also illustrated why i don't like him starting at 8 all in the same game. His 2nd half was majestic and he's a fucking menace out wide.
As I alluded to in the MOTM thread, there were a couple of players who I thought (live) didn't have great 1st halves, and Savea was one of those. He spent a lot of time out wide without being too involved. A totally different 2nd half though with his performance and impact. I had a great view of his try which started with a sweet flat and wide pass from Smith. The overhead camera footage didn't even do that pass justice.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
A Savea showed his absolute worth and also illustrated why i don't like him starting at 8 all in the same game. His 2nd half was majestic and he's a fucking menace out wide. That bloke is a point of difference, and i swear him playing the last 30 minutes as an all-energy impact sub makes us a very dangerous proposition.
Ardie is a great player in general play - overall, he may well be our MVP in that aspect. Peter Gus' try showed what a really big man can do off the back of the scrum (and elsewhere) - Ardie does that with determination rather than bulk - but, his (Ardie's) biggest "shortcoming" in my view is being too short to be a genuine lineout option. He's pretty much Rodney So'oialo v2.0. I can see why they want him on the paddock, but he doesn't help balance the loose trio.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
A Savea showed his absolute worth and also illustrated why i don't like him starting at 8 all in the same game. His 2nd half was majestic and he's a fucking menace out wide. That bloke is a point of difference, and i swear him playing the last 30 minutes as an all-energy impact sub makes us a very dangerous proposition.
Ardie is a great player in general play - overall, he may well be our MVP in that aspect. Peter Gus' try showed what a really big man can do off the back of the scrum (and elsewhere) - Ardie does that with determination rather than bulk - but, his (Ardie's) biggest "shortcoming" in my view is being too short to be a genuine lineout option. He's pretty much Rodney So'oialo v2.0. I can see why they want him on the paddock, but he doesn't help balance the loose trio.
Was pretty annoying watching a side playing three locks throw to a short 8 at the front.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
A Savea showed his absolute worth and also illustrated why i don't like him starting at 8 all in the same game. His 2nd half was majestic and he's a fucking menace out wide. That bloke is a point of difference, and i swear him playing the last 30 minutes as an all-energy impact sub makes us a very dangerous proposition.
Ardie is a great player in general play - overall, he may well be our MVP in that aspect. Peter Gus' try showed what a really big man can do off the back of the scrum (and elsewhere) - Ardie does that with determination rather than bulk - but, his (Ardie's) biggest "shortcoming" in my view is being too short to be a genuine lineout option. He's pretty much Rodney So'oialo v2.0. I can see why they want him on the paddock, but he doesn't help balance the loose trio.
and this is the dilemma facing the selectors, and why they get paid for this shit.
A dude with so much obvious upside, and yet glaring deficiencies at the same time. How best to use?
A decision made tougher by the skipper playing in what is probably Ardies best spot if starting. And a guy who also looks to the manor born also in that spot.Fucking good spot to be in though isn't it?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Fucking good spot to be in though isn't it?
Problem is that the shortness means the loose forward trio just unbalances. That's a nut the selectors haven't cracked yet.
Honestly, to me giving him a big 20-30 off the bench against tiring legs is probably the best option; his versatility and looser play becomes a real strength. -
It was a cracking number 8 run to score that try and no surprise it happened well into the second half.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
It was a cracking number 8 run to score that try and no surprise it happened well into the second half.
Dude a 13 would be happy with that, outside swerve to beat the line, ball in two hands to send teh FB away, over untouched. It was pretty sexy
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Was pretty annoying watching a side playing three locks throw to a short 8 at the front.
While I don't disagree with you, if you believe the AB stats Savea is the same height as Grace, who seems to be lauded as a lineout gun. A lot of teams use a loose forward at the front to get quick ball. Often they are easier to lift than a bigger lock.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Was pretty annoying watching a side playing three locks throw to a short 8 at the front.
While I don't disagree with you, if you believe the AB stats Savea is the same height as Grace, who seems to be lauded as a lineout gun. A lot of teams use a loose forward at the front to get quick ball. Often they are easier to lift than a bigger lock.
Grace has been used as a lock at times by Canterbury (?) so that doesn't make too much sense.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Grace has been used as a lock at times by Canterbury (?) so that doesn't make too much sense.
There are plenty of shorter locks in NPC teams, or even SR teams (looking at you Blackwell).
If you compare Grace to Christie (1.85/1.86 m).
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@Stargazer if he frizzed up his hair he'd get at least another few centimetres
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Stargazer if he frizzed up his hair he'd get at least another few centimetres
Now that we know he's Polynesian he can start growing a ginga afro.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Stargazer if he frizzed up his hair he'd get at least another few centimetres
Now that we know he's Polynesian he can start growing a ginga afro.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Stargazer if he frizzed up his hair he'd get at least another few centimetres
Now that we know he's Polynesian he can start growing a ginga afro.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Bovidae Grace is 1.93m and Christie 1.86m.
Grace played at lock for NZU20s and for Canterbury in his first year.
Photo from 2019.
That would be correct Dallas McLeod is 190 cm and Grace is a bit taller in this photo.
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Re-watching the game. In the first 20 minutes, Whitelock has been doing a great job hitting rucks.
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Reece's 29th minute try was due to a very laboured, and inaccurate, pass from Sexton. I guess he had gotten his head knock when he slipped into a tackle a few phases earlier.
Up until that point the game was pretty even. NZ making some mistakes, but our set-piece was better.
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On the 33 minute mark, Ireland have begun to look tired, and Savea gets his excellent Fringe running game going - it's probably game over if you give an AB team with a 9 point lead that bit of time and space.
Beauden Barrett defending very well. Kicking game pretty good too, after an early nothing kick.
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Ireland's kick chasing in the 1st half was poor, and their defensive line-speed wasn't as good as usual. ABs clean out was much better, and they shifted the point of attack when using forward ball carriers better than last year. Looked like a few backline moves executed with players standing deeper.
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Enjoyable test match and it will be interesting to see if Ireland can bounce back. There was certainly enough positives for Ireland to take out of the match that if they can get these things right, then they can win.
They were extremely competitive in the forwards / breakdown, but we just capitalised on their (often forced) mistakes ruthlessly. If they had managed to get one of the two (correctly) disallowed tries and avoid Reece's runaway then suddenly the score is 35-26 which is certainly much closer.
I predict they will come out firing again, and the final to be within a score. If we get up (which I do put us down as favourites for), then I predict the series will go down the well trodden AB series path of a 3rd test blowout in our favour. If Ireland can get up ... then it may just come down to last man standing! A few other comments
I really like O'Mahoney as a player, but man he's a ref whinger. It's really boring.
Stuart Barnes thinks Cane is toast and is holding Ardie back.
Scott Barrett, above discussion aside, had a great game.
The Ioane / Tupaea axis worked really well and I'm excited about seeing this again.
Aaron Smith may have been surpassed by Dupont as the premier scrummie in the game, but he's still no slouch .. can he hold on until RWC 2023?Roll on the weekend!
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
On the 33 minute mark, Ireland have begun to look tired, and Savea gets his excellent Fringe running game going - it's probably game over if you give an AB team with a 9 point lead that bit of time and space.
Beauden Barrett defending very well. Kicking game pretty good too, after an early nothing kick.
Thank you, I felt like I was watching a different game to some posters wanking on about how bad Beauden's kicking was. He even got blamed for a try as one of his kicks from inside the 22 was caught by an Irish player on the 50m line.
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@No-Quarter Gibson-Park's brainfart was the kind of thing a test player should never do, and gifted the ball to the AB's on Ireland's 22, but Barrett's grubber for Tupaea was absolutely perfect. Beautiful play.
Smith's try was just cruel. Great vision and execution.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Reece's 29th minute try was due to a very laboured, and inaccurate, pass from Sexton. I guess he had gotten his head knock when he slipped into a tackle a few phases earlier.
Up until that point the game was pretty even. NZ making some mistakes, but our set-piece was better.
That whole passage of play from the Irish, even before Sexton was pretty untidy, there was a fumble backwards prior to the sexton contact and was a mess from there
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Beauden Barrett defending very well.
Yep, very noticeable at the game that he made some important tackles. The Reece try was from a BB tackle creating a loose ball.
Kicking game pretty good too, after an early nothing kick.
I thought that a couple of kicks from deep in the 1st half could have been better directed when he kicked directly downfield. That could have been BB's intention but there was so much space wider for a wipers kick.
BB was considered in my MOTM voting.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Reece's 29th minute try was due to a very laboured, and inaccurate, pass from Sexton. I guess he had gotten his head knock when he slipped into a tackle a few phases earlier.
Up until that point the game was pretty even. NZ making some mistakes, but our set-piece was better.
That whole passage of play from the Irish, even before Sexton was pretty untidy, there was a fumble backwards prior to the sexton contact and was a mess from there
That whole passage of play was the perfect example of how and when things will go wrong for a team like Ireland when they go off script.
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Straight from the kick-off Barrett put up a poor kick, allowing Ireland back on to attack. That's the stuff he needs to nail down.
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