Highlanders 2023
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@friedrugby Can't disagree on Mitch's size - it's a drawback - on defence and when he gets caught.
Mitch is one of my Mako boys - so I've seen plenty of him and I think I've got a pretty realistic view of his capabilities.
Ideally, you don't want him as your starting first five in Super rugby - but, I think you will struggle mightily to sign three first fives who are better next year.
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@Chris-B he didn;t play last year due to injury did he? so he hasn't has a decent run for the mako since 2021? its the last 2 seasons that his form has dropped so much, 2020/2021 he was carving up quite a bit at 15 behind Ioane...and as we keep being reminded there is a big difference between NPC and super
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@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Bones said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
Half the players you have mentioned are highly average - that is part of the issue.
They are the kind of players you can build on and rely on and get a lot more out of it you point them in the right direction - dollars to donuts Rennie or similar would've got us twice as many wins this season.
The same players who have failed under three different coaches? At some point you have to look at the players. Are they handy? Some of them sure, but those players I mentioned as average aren't starters in a title winning team. As good as Hugh Renton has been, he hasn't been better than Sotutu, Savea or Jacobson has he? And I'm still not convinced MMT has done anything to be shelved the way he has. You watch Frizell the past couple of weeks, it is effortless carries, but he stays on his feet and keeps it alive in the tackle. Without seeing the stats, I reckon a stat measuring a ratio of offload per carry would be very low for Renton.
All those players have had regular appearances under 3 coaches?
I can't see how we're going to agree when you point out that Frizzel playing well at lock, while supported by a loose trio playing well is evidence that Frizzel is a great loosie, despite having zero impact there earlier in the season.
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@Kiwiwomble Don't think so. We mainly had Willy Havili - another Super first five.
We did have our worst season in a decade....
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@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby Can't disagree on Mitch's size - it's a drawback - on defence and when he gets caught.
Mitch is one of my Mako boys - so I've seen plenty of him and I think I've got a pretty realistic view of his capabilities.
Ideally, you don't want him as your starting first five in Super rugby - but, I think you will struggle mightily to sign three first fives who are better next year.
Sure, but in effect he has been the Landers 2nd choice 10 this year, and he has been dreadful.
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@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Bones It is nothing to do with him playing lock, he has started taking the ball up properly and doing so with impact. Did so playing 6 against the Chiefs.
Slightly more impact than Paea isnt something to write home about.
Be happy to chuck him at centre though with that in mind.
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@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby Can't disagree on Mitch's size - it's a drawback - on defence and when he gets caught.
Mitch is one of my Mako boys - so I've seen plenty of him and I think I've got a pretty realistic view of his capabilities.
Ideally, you don't want him as your starting first five in Super rugby - but, I think you will struggle mightily to sign three first fives who are better next year.
Sure, but in effect he has been the Landers 2nd choice 10 this year, and he has been dreadful.
hunt? he's started 9 games at 10, thought it was pretty clear he was first choice
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby Can't disagree on Mitch's size - it's a drawback - on defence and when he gets caught.
Mitch is one of my Mako boys - so I've seen plenty of him and I think I've got a pretty realistic view of his capabilities.
Ideally, you don't want him as your starting first five in Super rugby - but, I think you will struggle mightily to sign three first fives who are better next year.
Sure, but in effect he has been the Landers 2nd choice 10 this year, and he has been dreadful.
hunt? he's started 9 games at 10, thought it was pretty clear he was first choice
Only because Burns was injured though... (so I guess in effect first choice, probably poor choice of wording) my main point was, sometimes your backup gets heaps of gametime, and they need to be relied upon.
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@friedrugby how do we know that? hunt started the first few games before burns got injured, hell, burns had a shocker in his first start against the saders and straight back to hunt
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@Bones said in Highlanders 2023:
I'm more than happy to have a kid out there getting better from a low point, than Hunt out there getting worse from a low point.
That's what the Chiefs were forced to do with the locks a couple of seasons ago. The experience helped with their development.
I still believe that Faleafaga is the 1st 5 of the future. Better than Millar, but he needs to play NPC first.
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Do it for Aaron. That is all I ask, let's put in an 80 fucken minute performance, and send him off with a BP win, which should just about see us into the QFs.
Can't see it with the backline, which is about as inspiring as a Wayne Brown presser, but every dog has his day right?!
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@friedrugby i still think from our current squad thats the best backline we've put out, nareki back, hunt not 10, no paea
edit: i take it back, TUJ out
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby i still think from our current squad thats the best backline we've put out, nareki back, hunt not 10, no paea
Nonsense. Hunt at 15? I get we have a few injuries, but Whaanga was deemed not good enough for Otago last year, and is now turning out for the Landers? Weird thinking. Lowe has been absolute toilet, Bogado back fit but not selected - weird.
I'd have gone Smith, Burns, Nareki, Gregory, Lowe, Bogado, Gilbert. Limited by options, and that backline is still crap lol.
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@friedrugby and starting someone slower than a prop at 12 means we're going to have to just agree to disagree
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@Kiwiwomble My main point is our backs are shit... surely we can agree on that! If I could, I'd start this backline:
- Smith
- Gilbert
- Nareki
- Gilbert
- Gilbert
- Gilbert
- Gilbert
And I'm not even sure Gilbert is a world-beater, but he is probably the best in all of those positions.
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@friedrugby i hate just writing off players as "shit" because they are still miles better than i am...but of course, our results show we're miles off the pace, but thats why i said i liked what they had selected from our squad and not in general
the way i see it, hunt has the yips, too in his head for 10 at super level, but his speed and and general skill level is still useful...where as i just dont think gregory is anywhere near super level, he's huge and any speed he use to have seems to have gone, guys that are getting paid to play rugby that done even look fit get very little respect from me
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby i hate just writing off players as "shit" because they are still miles better than i am...but of course, our results show we're miles off the pace, but thats why i said i liked what they had selected from our squad and not in general
the way i see it, hunt has the yips, too in his head for 10 at super level, but his speed and and general skill level is still useful... whereas i just dont think gregory is anywhere near super level, he's huge and any speed he use to have seems to have gone, guys that are getting paid to play rugby that done even look fit get very little respect from me
Yes it is a hard one, I guess, outside of Nareki and Smith, and maybe Gilbert at a push, I don't think any of these guys start for any of the other New Zealand franchises, which already means that our backups are quite poor.
Ideally you'd ship them all out, but replacements are needed. Is TUJ one of our better backs? Yes. Is TUJ good enough? I'm not sure, but you'd like to keep him for the purposes of depth. I like the academy route, but outside of 9&10, not sure I'm convinced by any of these young fellas coming through.
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It is a tough one. We should be looking to fill from the top and empty from the bottom. Meaning all the players we potentially bring in have a higher ceiling than what we have at the moment, while we focus on getting rid of players who are at the bottom of the pile.
In the backs the players who are on the way out should be, Paea, Gregory, Koroi, Banks, Dawai.
In the forwards any of the hookers and apart from them, I think most of the forwards can justify their places in the squad.
But the question is; if we are getting rid of at least five backs, who is going to replace them. We know one is Jake Te Hiwi, but who else?
