RWC 2023
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so they do the draw 3 years out, even though many of the teams who will be playing have not yet been determined?
Instead of making double rankings points during the RWC, make it double in the 18 months leading in and do the draw 6 months out.
Muppets
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
Has there been any thought given that perhaps World Rugby are purposefully doing this early to create chaos so that pool play is exciting with multiple big teams in the same pool?
It'll be for logistics right? So teams can plan ahead.
I'd prefer the seeding being done int he year before the world cup so you get the best competition, but I guess the World Cup is not about that?!?
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@Kirwan said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
It'll be for logistics right? So teams can plan ahead.
although I expect many of the teams who need to do the forward planning, budgetting etc dont know if they will qualify yet anyway.
And as @Machpants says, Soccer do it 6 months, with more teams to deal with.
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The FIFA World Cup with the exception of the host nation is an entirely random draw though so the logistics are a bit more straight forward.
To have a financially successful RWC the draw has be to be done carefully to ensure the marquee match ups maximize attendance etc.
Why three years is needed and not two is a mystery. Six months would seem unworkable though.
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@rotated said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
The FIFA World Cup with the exception of the host nation is an entirely random draw though so the logistics are a bit more straight forward.
I didn't know that, but I don't follow soccer.
So it would be possible to have a group that contained Brazil, Germany, France, etc and have most of the favourites knocked out at the pool stage. -
Pretty much affirming this isn't a sporting competition, but a revenue raising device (we knew it of course, but it's nice to have it so neatly illustrated). Rugby's very own speed camera
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@Duluth said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Kirwan said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
It'll be for logistics right? So teams can plan ahead.
Tour operators, fans...
I can understand why they don't want it done 12months before. Surely two years would be enough?
Two years is barely enough, but workable.
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@rotated said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
The FIFA World Cup with the exception of the host nation is an entirely random draw though so the logistics are a bit more straight forward.
To have a financially successful RWC the draw has be to be done carefully to ensure the marquee match ups maximize attendance etc.
Why three years is needed and not two is a mystery. Six months would seem unworkable though.
Is it? Didn't use to be.
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@booboo said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Duluth said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Kirwan said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
It'll be for logistics right? So teams can plan ahead.
Tour operators, fans...
I can understand why they don't want it done 12months before. Surely two years would be enough?
Two years is barely enough, but workable.
what do you mean by that?
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@mariner4life said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@booboo said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Duluth said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Kirwan said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
It'll be for logistics right? So teams can plan ahead.
Tour operators, fans...
I can understand why they don't want it done 12months before. Surely two years would be enough?
Two years is barely enough, but workable.
what do you mean by that?
Well, my opinion.
Althiugh a lot can happen to form I two years, but it's kind of close enough that it's reflective of form reasonably close to the event, and independent of the last one.
... work calls ... might try and explain better later
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@booboo said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@rotated said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
The FIFA World Cup with the exception of the host nation is an entirely random draw though so the logistics are a bit more straight forward.
To have a financially successful RWC the draw has be to be done carefully to ensure the marquee match ups maximize attendance etc.
Why three years is needed and not two is a mystery. Six months would seem unworkable though.
Is it? Didn't use to be.
Random in the sense of venue allocation. A1 vs A3 @ Venue ABC on July 1 is set out before the draw is made. The tournament is seeded, although there is some vagueries beyond the Top 7 seeds as certain confederations can only have a maximum of two teams per pool etc.
The RWC is done in reverse where the pools are drawn first (with repechage and qualifiers still undecided) and then the schedule and venues are chosen to suit the draw, maximize attendance, TV timezones etc.
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@booboo said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Duluth said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Kirwan said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
It'll be for logistics right? So teams can plan ahead.
Tour operators, fans...
I can understand why they don't want it done 12months before. Surely two years would be enough?
Two years is barely enough, but workable.
If a union can't determine training grounds and a hotel with two years notice, they shouldn't be turning up.
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Qualification process set for Rugby World Cup 2023
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With 12 teams having secured their place at France 2023 courtesy of finishing in the top three of their respective pools at RWC 2019, the remaining eight places will be determined by a process of regional and cross-regional qualifiers. The process will conclude with a four-team round-robin Final Qualification Tournament in November 2022 to determine the final qualifier.
The dates for events in 2021 will be announced in due course and will be subject to an anticipated easing of the COVID-19 situation.
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The Americas will deliver two direct places, while Oceania will deliver a direct qualifier with a further direct place available following a play-off with Asia. The Rugby Europe Championship (two direct places), Rugby Africa Cup (one direct place) and Final Qualification Tournament (one direct place) will provide the other qualifiers. Further details are provided below.
-> RWC 2023 qualification principles
- Americas: the Americas will qualify two teams by September 2022. The third best team in the region will enter the Final Qualification Tournament – Americas 1 and Americas 2
- Europe: the existing Rugby Europe Championship will have two qualifying places, with the two best teams in March 2022 qualifying directly and the third placed entering the Final Qualification Tournament – Europe 1 and Europe 2
- Africa: the Rugby Africa Cup 2022 winner will qualify directly and the runner-up team will go to Final Qualification – Africa 1
- Oceania: a home and away play-off between Tonga and Samoa in 2021 will determine the direct qualifier for the Oceania region. – Oceania 1
The loser will then play the Oceania Rugby Cup 2021 winner in the highest ranked team’s country with the eventual winner contesting Asia / Pacific (see below) as Oceania 2 - Asia / Pacific: the winner of the Asian Rugby Men’s Championship 2021 will play Oceania 2 home and away. The winner on aggregate will determine the qualifier and the loser will go to Final Qualification – Asia / Pacific 1
- Final Qualification Tournament: the tournament in November 2022 will feature four teams playing in a round-robin format with the winner qualifying for RWC 2023 – Final Qualification winner
Teams already qualified: South Africa, England, New Zealand, Wales, Japan, France (host), Australia, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Argentina, Fiji
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Final details of the regional competition formats and dates will be announced in due course
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I get why the RWC draw needs to be relatively contrived, but so far out is silly. This should be something that happens around halfway through a RWC cycle.
If it wasn't somewhat contrived we'd all be complaining about a lack of marquee pool games, and big games at small venues. When a tournament has dominant sides mixed with minnows and is often played in nations or regions where its a minority sport, contrivances and concessions have to be made in order to create the best spectacle, and yes, the most money.
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@shark said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
I get why the RWC draw needs to be relatively contrived, but so far out is silly. This should be something that happens around halfway through a RWC cycle.
If it wasn't somewhat contrived we'd all be complaining about a lack of marquee pool games, and big games at small venues. When a tournament has dominant sides mixed with minnows and is often played in nations or regions where its a minority sport, contrivances and concessions have to be made in order to create the best spectacle, and yes, the most money.
I'm the complete opposite of this. I think the draw should be done late, and nearly every team should have to qualify. What better way to get T1 nations playing against and at T2 and T3 opposition.
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@mariner4life said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@shark said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
I get why the RWC draw needs to be relatively contrived, but so far out is silly. This should be something that happens around halfway through a RWC cycle.
If it wasn't somewhat contrived we'd all be complaining about a lack of marquee pool games, and big games at small venues. When a tournament has dominant sides mixed with minnows and is often played in nations or regions where its a minority sport, contrivances and concessions have to be made in order to create the best spectacle, and yes, the most money.
I'm the complete opposite of this. I think the draw should be done late, and nearly every team should have to qualify. What better way to get T1 nations playing against and at T2 and T3 opposition.
This only increases the potential to have lop-sided pools and T1 nations playing at small grounds, surely.
