Crusaders v Highlanders
-
@nzzp said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nepia sorry, I didn't express myself well.
I don't want as many cards, but if the thresholds are set,I want consistent application.
I can't comment on the red last night, haven't seen it yet as enjoying a weekend at the beach
I didn't have an issue with your comment - I think the quoting may have got muddled. Enjoy the beach, winter has come to Sydney so no beach for me.
-
Find it to depressing to go on about the things we got wrong so will try and point out some positives
I thought withy played well, starting in a struggling team v the crusaders, nice to see a local kid come through
And Denny looked real lively, can see him being a real option for the rest of the season, could do some damage against some of the Aussie teams if we get to play them
-
@kiwiwomble Dawai had his best game so far too. Showing improvement with every game.
-
@nepia said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@taniwharugby said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nepia would you prefer they ruled a red straight away, then slo-mos during the week on here with arrows 'n shit or social showing no actual contact to the head?
For a change I agree with @Crucial in that they have a process to follow, sure on the surface it is clear cut and the end result proves it was as well, but I'd rather a few extra viewings to make sure it was a correct red card than not, and then we have a week or more of bitching about red cards ruining games, or if they dont follow due process, an incident that should be a red card, wasnt, then people bitch about that.
as @nzzp says, its consistency, but such are the rules of the game that consistency of interpretation is an issue.
It was at least 4 or 5 looks at that stage and everyone could see the contact to the head. Obviously, I'd rather they get it right but that was a clusterfuck from the moment the ref said play on to the only ruling it was a shot to the head in that final slo-mo.
Trouble is that the refs say-so isn't the final one.
All Reds go to the judiciary and as we saw last week with Banks, what looked like direct connection to the head was ruled (after presumably a QC found someone's high speed, high definition enhanced alternate angle that he touched a shoulder on the way to impact a millisecond later.
The refs must feel pressure to get it right not just for during the game but after. -
@taniwharugby said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke sure it should have been obvious, but I'd much rather they took thier time and got it right (as they did)
It all depends on the situation & clear views or not how many times a replay needs to be checked... last night though only one replay was needed to be shown to see it was a red card.
-
@nzbloke said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@taniwharugby said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke sure it should have been obvious, but I'd much rather they took thier time and got it right (as they did)
It all depends on the situation how many times a replay needs to be checked... last night though only one replay needed to be shown to see it was a red card.
So you can assess the whole head contact decision framework from one showing? Well done you.
Point of contact. Check.
Wrapping? Check
Change of line? Check.
Change of height tackler? Check
Change of height ball carrier? Check.
Head/Neck first point of contact? Check.Buggered if I would be able to cross all that off from one look at a two second clip while standing 60 metres away from a screen.
-
Some random thoughts from a Crusader point of view after finally watching this game
Zach Gallagher is a mean looking kid. Maybe it's his thick neck, he looks like a fighter to me.
Loose forward has become a strength after being a weakness the last few years. Grace, Blackadder and Christie are pretty bloody handy at this level.
I was disappointed to see Ennor go straight to centre and LF move to the wing. I think there is more potential the other way around.
It will be interesting to see how the backline looks once Goodhue is back and hopefully firing. I think (hope) Bridge will be left out.
-
@crazy-horse said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
Some random thoughts from a Crusader point of view after finally watching this game
Zach Gallagher is a mean looking kid. Maybe it's his thick neck, he looks like a fighter to me.
Loose forward has become a strength after being a weakness the last few years. Grace, Blackadder and Christie are pretty bloody handy at this level.
I was disappointed to see Ennor go straight to centre and LF move to the wing. I think there is more potential the other way around.
It will be interesting to see how the backline looks once Goodhue is back and hopefully firing. I think (hope) Bridge will be left out.
I rate Gallagher highly tough young bugger only 20.
Very physical player good size at 117kg and 197 c/m
He can also play 6. -
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
Find it to depressing to go on about the things we got wrong so will try and point out some positives
I thought withy played well, starting in a struggling team v the crusaders, nice to see a local kid come through
And Denny looked real lively, can see him being a real option for the rest of the season, could do some damage against some of the Aussie teams if we get to play them
Thought Gilbert was bloody good too.
-
@crucial said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@taniwharugby said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke sure it should have been obvious, but I'd much rather they took thier time and got it right (as they did)
It all depends on the situation how many times a replay needs to be checked... last night though only one replay needed to be shown to see it was a red card.
So you can assess the whole head contact decision framework from one showing? Well done you.
Point of contact. Check.
Wrapping? Check
Change of line? Check.
Change of height tackler? Check
Change of height ball carrier? Check.
Head/Neck first point of contact? Check.Buggered if I would be able to cross all that off from one look at a two second clip while standing 60 metres away from a screen.
Even Tony Johnson noticed it was a red straightaway on the first slow motion replay, where he said, " you're kidding me "
overcomplicating your check list mate in this situation... it's basically the following :
He didn't wrap the arms.
Shoulder to the neck/head
Ball carrier didn't slip or duck. -
@nzbloke said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@crucial said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@taniwharugby said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke sure it should have been obvious, but I'd much rather they took thier time and got it right (as they did)
It all depends on the situation how many times a replay needs to be checked... last night though only one replay needed to be shown to see it was a red card.
So you can assess the whole head contact decision framework from one showing? Well done you.
Point of contact. Check.
Wrapping? Check
Change of line? Check.
Change of height tackler? Check
Change of height ball carrier? Check.
Head/Neck first point of contact? Check.Buggered if I would be able to cross all that off from one look at a two second clip while standing 60 metres away from a screen.
Even Tony Johnson noticed it was a red straightaway on the first slow motion replay, where he said, " you're kidding me "
overcomplicating your check list mate in this situation... it's basically the following :
He didn't wrap the arms.
Shoulder to the neck/head
Ball carrier didn't slip or duck.TJs job doesn’t require him to follow a set of guidelines and process, nor does he get reviewed on it and have future prospects depending on it.
Of course it looked bad at first viewing. Then you follow process. It’s pretty simple to understand. -
@crucial said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@crucial said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@taniwharugby said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@nzbloke sure it should have been obvious, but I'd much rather they took thier time and got it right (as they did)
It all depends on the situation how many times a replay needs to be checked... last night though only one replay needed to be shown to see it was a red card.
So you can assess the whole head contact decision framework from one showing? Well done you.
Point of contact. Check.
Wrapping? Check
Change of line? Check.
Change of height tackler? Check
Change of height ball carrier? Check.
Head/Neck first point of contact? Check.Buggered if I would be able to cross all that off from one look at a two second clip while standing 60 metres away from a screen.
Even Tony Johnson noticed it was a red straightaway on the first slow motion replay, where he said, " you're kidding me "
overcomplicating your check list mate in this situation... it's basically the following :
He didn't wrap the arms.
Shoulder to the neck/head
Ball carrier didn't slip or duck.TJs job doesn’t require him to follow a set of guidelines and process, nor does he get reviewed on it and have future prospects depending on it.
Of course it looked bad at first viewing. Then you follow process. It’s pretty simple to understand.sometimes the process is bollocks. Lyon walked, remember, then reviewed. I get the 'process' argument, but there's also a need to just take things that are clear and obvious. Slo mo can lead people to the wrong conclusions.
-
@bones said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
Find it to depressing to go on about the things we got wrong so will try and point out some positives
I thought withy played well, starting in a struggling team v the crusaders, nice to see a local kid come through
And Denny looked real lively, can see him being a real option for the rest of the season, could do some damage against some of the Aussie teams if we get to play them
Thought Gilbert was bloody good too.
i did too but there were a few critics during the game and didn't want to set myself up for an argument, the timing for the break off the MMT pop was beautiful
-
@kiwiwomble MMT himself was quite handy in this game, too. Steadily improving each game since his injury.
-
@stargazer agreed, i think he's made it clear he's better than evans and then evans was very lively off the bench
-
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@bones said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
Find it to depressing to go on about the things we got wrong so will try and point out some positives
I thought withy played well, starting in a struggling team v the crusaders, nice to see a local kid come through
And Denny looked real lively, can see him being a real option for the rest of the season, could do some damage against some of the Aussie teams if we get to play them
Thought Gilbert was bloody good too.
i did too but there were a few critics during the game and didn't want to set myself up for an argument, the timing for the break off the MMT pop was beautiful
He's getting better at this level, but personally speaking I don't think he's the right fit for a Super rugby winger.
However, as both of you are Landers supporters though, and are pleased with him, then I say neat from a Chiefs perspective, as he's a bit of a donkey in comparison to the other wings running around.
He's not a bad player, as he tends to touch the ball a bit (between 6-8 runs a game over the last three or four games I looked at), and get around 30 - 50 (54 this last weekend), so he has upside. However, he's not particularly accurate; he had three turnovers and made (I'm pretty sure) at least one or two bad kicks. He also managed to miss 2 tackles (made 4).
That's a bit of a pattern even when he is a at FB (where I think he is better) as he missed half as many tackles as he made against the Blues (made 2, missed 1) and conceded a turnover, which was similar to the Canes (at 14) where he conceded 3 turnovers, missed 3, and made 2.
-
@chris said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@crazy-horse said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
Some random thoughts from a Crusader point of view after finally watching this game
Zach Gallagher is a mean looking kid. Maybe it's his thick neck, he looks like a fighter to me.
Loose forward has become a strength after being a weakness the last few years. Grace, Blackadder and Christie are pretty bloody handy at this level.
I was disappointed to see Ennor go straight to centre and LF move to the wing. I think there is more potential the other way around.
It will be interesting to see how the backline looks once Goodhue is back and hopefully firing. I think (hope) Bridge will be left out.
I rate Gallagher highly tough young bugger only 20.
Very physical player good size at 117kg and 197 c/m
He can also play 6.Crusades website says 117 kg, Wikipedia and All Blacks .com say 102kg.
I assume the Crusaders website is more up to date but that's some weight gain!! -
@gt12 said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@bones said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
Find it to depressing to go on about the things we got wrong so will try and point out some positives
I thought withy played well, starting in a struggling team v the crusaders, nice to see a local kid come through
And Denny looked real lively, can see him being a real option for the rest of the season, could do some damage against some of the Aussie teams if we get to play them
Thought Gilbert was bloody good too.
i did too but there were a few critics during the game and didn't want to set myself up for an argument, the timing for the break off the MMT pop was beautiful
He's getting better at this level, but personally speaking I don't think he's the right fit for a Super rugby winger.
However, as both of you are Landers supporters though, and are pleased with him, then I say neat from a Chiefs perspective, as he's a bit of a donkey in comparison to the other wings running around.
He's not a bad player, as he tends to touch the ball a bit (between 6-8 runs a game over the last three or four games I looked at), and get around 30 - 50 (54 this last weekend), so he has upside. However, he's not particularly accurate; he had three turnovers and made (I'm pretty sure) at least one or two bad kicks. He also managed to miss 2 tackles (made 4).
That's a bit of a pattern even when he is a at FB (where I think he is better) as he missed half as many tackles as he made against the Blues (made 2, missed 1) and conceded a turnover, which was similar to the Canes (at 14) where he conceded 3 turnovers, missed 3, and made 2.
im not going to argue too much as there are obviously better wingers out there, and personally i prefer him at 15, not the finished article, but decent boot and seems to have an eye for coming into the line, but i think donkey is a little harsh, he's one type of winger, he's shown up a few times looping in from the blind side wing and has that timing down
which makes we wonder if theyve ever considered him in the midfield? @bones?
let not forget this is probably the longest run of games he's had at this level and so as long as he's looking to improve im happy enough
-
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@gt12 said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@bones said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Crusaders v Highlanders:
Find it to depressing to go on about the things we got wrong so will try and point out some positives
I thought withy played well, starting in a struggling team v the crusaders, nice to see a local kid come through
And Denny looked real lively, can see him being a real option for the rest of the season, could do some damage against some of the Aussie teams if we get to play them
Thought Gilbert was bloody good too.
i did too but there were a few critics during the game and didn't want to set myself up for an argument, the timing for the break off the MMT pop was beautiful
He's getting better at this level, but personally speaking I don't think he's the right fit for a Super rugby winger.
However, as both of you are Landers supporters though, and are pleased with him, then I say neat from a Chiefs perspective, as he's a bit of a donkey in comparison to the other wings running around.
He's not a bad player, as he tends to touch the ball a bit (between 6-8 runs a game over the last three or four games I looked at), and get around 30 - 50 (54 this last weekend), so he has upside. However, he's not particularly accurate; he had three turnovers and made (I'm pretty sure) at least one or two bad kicks. He also managed to miss 2 tackles (made 4).
That's a bit of a pattern even when he is a at FB (where I think he is better) as he missed half as many tackles as he made against the Blues (made 2, missed 1) and conceded a turnover, which was similar to the Canes (at 14) where he conceded 3 turnovers, missed 3, and made 2.
im not going to argue too much as there are obviously better wingers out there, and personally i prefer him at 15, not the finished article, but decent boot and seems to have an eye for coming into the line, but i think donkey is a little harsh, he's one type of winger, he's shown up a few times looping in from the blind side wing and has that timing down
which makes we wonder if theyve ever considered him in the midfield? @bones?
let not forget this is probably the longest run of games he's had at this level and so as long as he's looking to improve im happy enough
He'll no doubt carve up against the Chiefs now, so you have that to look forward to.
If they are going to persist with their current backs (they don't have many options), I'd be tempted to bring CGB back via 14 and put Gilbert at 15. The big one is how much you guys miss Nareki and TUJ. It would be a very different backline with those two there (and I'd see a clearer reason for Gilbert then too if you had Nareki on the other wing).
-
@gt12 cant argue with that, as i say my preference with 14 CGB 15 gilbert, but yes, its more about the people we're missing and its pretty clear our over all plan involved them.
our current season is also a good example of the problem with a reasonably short season, a few losses on the trot and any long term plan gets put aside for just getting a win
