Force v Brumbies
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Brumbies call for accountability as they begin long road trip
Brumbies backrower Rob Valetini believes there are still major areas of improvement left in the side as they prepare to hit the road.
Force
Harrison Lloyd, Feleti Kaitu’u (c), Santiago Medrano, Jeremy Thrush, Izack Rodda, Fergus Lee-Warner, Kane Koteka, Brynard Stander, Ian Prior, Jake McIntyre, Manasa Mataele, Bayley Kuenzle, Kyle Godwin, Toni Pulu, Jake Strachan
Reserves: Andrew Ready, Bo Abra, Greg Holmes, Tim Anstee, Ollie Callan, Issak Fines-Leleiwasa, Reesjan Pasitoa, Richard Kahui
Brumbies
Scott Sio, Lachlan Lonergan, Sefo Kautai, Darcy Swain, Nick Frost, Rob Valetini, Jahrome Brown, Pete Samu, Ryan Lonergan (c), Rod Iona, Andy Muirhead, Irae Simone, Len Ikitau, Tom Wright, Tom Banks
Reserves: Billy Pollard, Fred Kaihea, Tom Ross, Tom Hooper, Rory Scott, Nic White, Hudson Creighton, Jesse Mogg
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@nta said in Force v Brumbies:
I understand where Turinui and Mitchell are coming from on the contact height close to the line. But plenty of time and space to put him on the deck through the hips to waist area.
Banks just pulled out because he wasn't sure if he'd get stepped.
Good example of where things get grey around 'accident' vs careless. When you aren't in control and things go wrong......
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@crucial said in Force v Brumbies:
@nta said in Force v Brumbies:
I understand where Turinui and Mitchell are coming from on the contact height close to the line. But plenty of time and space to put him on the deck through the hips to waist area.
Banks just pulled out because he wasn't sure if he'd get stepped.
Good example of where things get grey around 'accident' vs careless. When you aren't in control and things go wrong......
Agreed - and not malicious. Thing is, Banks is a pro rugby fullback. If he's not able to execute a tackle of suitable height that far out to save a try, maybe he's not cut out to be a pro rugby fullback.
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Fantastic match this one. Lots of flow and great attacking play made it a great watch. Felt sorry for Banks and Gardner but the rules forced their hand. Pulu did prop so Banks was very unfortunate. Not sure how Pulu makes Wallabies ahead of Muirhead though. Nick Frost looks a real test prospect.
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@arhs said in Force v Brumbies:
Fantastic match this one. Lots of flow and great attacking play made it a great watch. Felt sorry for Banks and Gardner but the rules forced their hand. Pulu did prop so Banks was very unfortunate. Not sure how Pulu makes Wallabies ahead of Muirhead though. Nick Frost looks a real test prospect.
No. No. No.
This is exactly why these incidents occur.
It is always the 'rules' and never the player actions.Banks was at full tilt, upright with no thought of height safety.
If he can teach himself to do everything else a player does to not break the rules he can teach himself to not run into the zone of a runner upright.
We had the same problem with players in the air and eventually the message got through to the point where the refs were able to dial back and recognise true accidents.
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@arhs said in Force v Brumbies:
@crucial disagree. Did you see the Lonergan incident after that? No chance a tackler can react in time for a player dipping like that. I think the refs need more discretion in contact calls. In front on situation I agree with you though.
The Banks example had no dip at all. Banks was totally the cause of what happened, not 'the rules'. And yes, he gets to leave the field.
No way I would want to be out there with someone out of control like that. -
@arhs said in Force v Brumbies:
@crucial disagree. Did you see the Lonergan incident after that? No chance a tackler can react in time for a player dipping like that.
Which is why the high tackle framework has mitigation built into it for players dipping into contact late, or stepping, or the level of force etc..
Pulu didn't significantly change direction, which was where Angus Gardner was starting to go before the vision proved otherwise. Even if Pulu stopped on the spot, Banks should have been executing a rib tackle or cheek to (arse) cheek hit. He did none of those things.
Head Contact + Zero Mitigation = red card. Add in a penalty try and hopefully a lesson is taken away by all players.
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There was a bit on twitter about it after the game, including red card being too harsh for these sorts of incidents (last night or England v Ireland).
"Red should be for dirty stuff only" said some, completely ignoring the fact that at pro level, this has been the case since introduction, but refs barely ever used it for punching as one example.
I think the 20 minute red card is the best middle ground we have at the moment PROVIDED the judiciary actually do their fucking job and stop handing out discounts like Harvey Fucking Norman.
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@nta Agreed. My issue is the number of deliberately high shoulder charges that are ignored (with intent to hurt - not just with intent to stop a try), while ones with far less intent are carded. Sometimes it seems that who the player is, and whether they are home team, and the time in the game all impact on the consideration of the officials.
I am not challenging the Red call on Banks as he was way too high in trying to stop the try, and they did look for the possible impact of Pulu's stepping on his head position, as they should have, as he seemed to prop on his right foot a bit. I just think the ref needs more discretion - with all the non-calls being made. The 20 minute red card should be used globally for instances like this.
My use of 'unlucky' is only around what I thought the obvious intent was - while (intentional) shoulder slams on a diving player's head and shoulders have been let go. Likewise when players target the head or exposed areas in clean-outs...
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@crucial it was a very odd one, it didnt look like he was trying to do anything, almost like he froze with indecision about what he was going to do at all, in the end he simply stood in the way and 2 heads clashed.
I have no doubt it was simply a complete mis-read of the situation, zero intent for anything at all, but 2 heads clashed, hard. So red card was always the answer, but this is where the 20-min red works.
