Chiefs vs Crusaders
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@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Too many mistakes tonight.
I said before the game it would be a battle of the coaches. Razor did well with tactics and we got Gatland to get his losing record going again.
The Crusaders cleaning up the penalties was the biggest difference from last week.
A coach who actually identifies problems and solves them... imagine that Fozzie?
Born from a much improved approach at the breakdown. A couple of their tries were born from lightning quick ball, which you just don't get against the Chiefs very often. They were first to the ruck on defence and on attack, even on the kick chase, they were able to get over the ball and then attack. They made a muck. The Chiefs defended hard and attacked with intent yet they couldn't hold onto the ball for more then five rucks. Razor implemented his gameplan to perfection tonight.
Crusaders missing Whitelock, Matera, Goodhue, McAllister, Ennor, Moody & others executed a very comprehensive win.
Well done Razor. Overtook Blackadder's wins as coach today after just 6 seasons. 87% win record - 23 higher than Blackadder & 14 higher than Robbie Deans (of whom had considerably stronger Crusader squads at their disposal including multiple GOAT's and all time franchise legends).
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@machpants said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
That was shit by 13, he should stay on the wing, cos that was awful
That was Fihaki defending at Centre who came in Leicester was defending at first five with Mounga on the wing .
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Huge choke from the Chiefs
Seriously though, the biggest thing I got from this game is the "learnings" the coaching staff of the Crusaders got from the first game against the Chiefs. The things the Crusaders had obviously worked on was obvious. They didn't attack the breakdown in the first game, this game the adjustment was really obvious. The point I am making, is why don't we see this kind of progression in the ABs? -
@tj said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Have to say that Gatland is the 3rd best 10 in the country, even behind a beaten pack he's looked pretty good.
Yeah I was watching it with half an eye on it and saw the Chiefs 10 running onto the ball and throwing passes out in front of his teammates to run into. Wondered to myself who that was because those two skills alone are two things that our top two 10s fail to do consistently (especially when not getting an armchair ride upfront)
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Phew. We were supposed to lose that by about a hundred. To come away with a win is one of the all-time great upsets. Forget North Macedonia besting Italy in football World Cup qualifying; this win takes the cake.
We might actually be a chance of winning this comp!
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@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Too many mistakes tonight.
I said before the game it would be a battle of the coaches. Razor did well with tactics and we got Gatland to get his losing record going again.
The Crusaders cleaning up the penalties was the biggest difference from last week.
A coach who actually identifies problems and solves them... imagine that Fozzie?
Born from a much improved approach at the breakdown. A couple of their tries were born from lightning quick ball, which you just don't get against the Chiefs very often. They were first to the ruck on defence and on attack, even on the kick chase, they were able to get over the ball and then attack. They made a muck. The Chiefs defended hard and attacked with intent yet they couldn't hold onto the ball for more then five rucks. Razor implemented his gameplan to perfection tonight.
Crusaders missing Whitelock, Matera, Goodhue, McAllister, Ennor, Moody & others executed a very comprehensive win.
Well done Razor. Overtook Blackadder's wins as coach today after just 6 seasons. 87% win record - 23 higher than Blackadder & 14 higher than Robbie Deans (of whom had considerably stronger Crusader squads at their disposal including multiple GOAT's and all time franchise legends).
Very debatable point about which coaches had the strongest squads. Deans certainly had the deepest squads, most frontline AB talent, a good dose of razzle dazzle and a couple of the best ever guys in their positions. Blackadder inherited much of that but after 2011 had very little outside back talent most seasons and on top of that he was a terrible backline selector so we saw some shocking combinations. I would say Razor's squads have had much more talented backs across the board and he's had great forward depth generally. So I'd say in order of the best squads it'd go Deans, then Razor then Smallbladder.
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@stag said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Cane convincingly outplayed by Christie again. I’d say that Christie would be a shoe in for the All Blacks, but Foster………
Really?? I think you need to watch game again, I agree Christie had a blinder, but Cane had a pearler too, playing how I want a 7 to play at test level. Just watch how incredibly quick he is off ground after a tackle etc, and how good his defence is. I not in anyway taking anything away from Christie who reminds me of Matt Todd, will die for the jersey you think, and part of a pretty good loose forward trio, but not someone who screams test player to me. Papalií is also more of a test type player I think.
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i dont think chiefs got loose forward selection right. finau and vaii got shown around ruck accuracy. we just turned over to much ball whither it was dropped or losed in tackle or lost in ruck,
on plus side our attack ,when we got good ball, actually broke down there defence quite easily.
not quite getting all the love here for nankivell gave them a try cost us one and coughed up the ball easily at least once..thought trask has less bad moments than him.
hopefully there will be a 3rd game -
@chris said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@toddy said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
WTF was Leicester doing there. Really bad read on defence.
That was Fihaki defending at Centre who came in Leicester was defending at first five with Mounga on the wing .
Early days for him but Fihaki has been disappointing. Hopefully NPC is not his limit.
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@old-samurai-jack said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Huge choke from the Chiefs
Seriously though, the biggest thing I got from this game is the "learnings" the coaching staff of the Crusaders got from the first game against the Chiefs. The things the Crusaders had obviously worked on was obvious. They didn't attack the breakdown in the first game, this game the adjustment was really obvious. The point I am making, is why don't we see this kind of progression in the ABs?A bit unfair. This was one game. We often see, even with Fozzie’s coaching, the ABs change things against a team second time around to good effect.
Being able to change during a game is the thing I would like to see.
Chiefs did that in game one but kept banging their heads against the wall this time.
Definitely a difference in the way that the Saders attacked the breakdown and they also caught the Chiefs with a poor night in that area.
Yep, looking forward to game three if we get one. Hopefully that time Gatland isn’t in the coaches seat.
We were well outplayed this week and the Saders deserved the win. -
However (you knew there was a however coming
), we also need to beat the ref. Saders seem to be judged to different tolerance levels. This isn’t a moan, it is a fact. You can argue that they have earned that over years but if I had the time and desire to go over the game with a stopwatch and comparative eyeI am pretty certain that I would find that on average turnovers are called very quickly when Sader hands are dangling into the tackle area while opposition players are left longer and once cleaned or partially cleaned, it is waved away.
One appalling ref attitude last night was the professional foul from Mounga. Cane questioned why such a deliberate penalty was waved away as any old penalty offence and was told that it was because the act was in their own half. WTAF? It killed an obvious counter attack opportunity (which is why it was done) and besides that was totally against the spirit of the game. At the very least Mounga deserved admonishing and the team placed on a warning for deliberate penalty offences. It smacked of tolerance for how they play. -
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
However (you knew there was a however coming
), we also need to beat the ref. Saders seem to be judged to different tolerance levels. This isn’t a moan, it is a fact. You can argue that they have earned that over years but if I had the time and desire to go over the game with a stopwatch and comparative eyeI am pretty certain that I would find that on average turnovers are called very quickly when Sader hands are dangling into the tackle area while opposition players are left longer and once cleaned or partially cleaned, it is waved away.
One appalling ref attitude last night was the professional foul from Mounga. Cane questioned why such a deliberate penalty was waved away as any old penalty offence and was told that it was because the act was in their own half. WTAF? It killed an obvious counter attack opportunity (which is why it was done) and besides that was totally against the spirit of the game. At the very least Mounga deserved admonishing and the team placed on a warning for deliberate penalty offences. It smacked of tolerance for how they play.Oh dear. On the MP vs Canes thread you said I was stretching the truth when I called Barrett out for missing touch twice. But that was a stone cold fact. And now you claim it to be a fact that the Crusaders are refereed to a different standard, which is 100% subjective unless you're prepared to "go over the game with a comparitive eye and a stopwatch" and actually find some evidence to support your wild claim.
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@shark said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
However (you knew there was a however coming
), we also need to beat the ref. Saders seem to be judged to different tolerance levels. This isn’t a moan, it is a fact. You can argue that they have earned that over years but if I had the time and desire to go over the game with a stopwatch and comparative eyeI am pretty certain that I would find that on average turnovers are called very quickly when Sader hands are dangling into the tackle area while opposition players are left longer and once cleaned or partially cleaned, it is waved away.
One appalling ref attitude last night was the professional foul from Mounga. Cane questioned why such a deliberate penalty was waved away as any old penalty offence and was told that it was because the act was in their own half. WTAF? It killed an obvious counter attack opportunity (which is why it was done) and besides that was totally against the spirit of the game. At the very least Mounga deserved admonishing and the team placed on a warning for deliberate penalty offences. It smacked of tolerance for how they play.Oh dear. On the MP vs Canes thread you said I was stretching the truth when I called Barrett out for missing touch twice. But that was a stone cold fact. And now you claim it to be a fact that the Crusaders are refereed to a different standard, which is 100% subjective unless you're prepared to "go over the game with a comparitive eye and a stopwatch" and actually find some evidence to support your wild claim.
Yeah that comment of “The Crusaders are referred to a different standard”
Sounds like Sour grapes to me.
I think if someone goes through every game the Crusaders have played,they have been penalised a lot more than any other team, for no other reason than they get over refereed.
Some people will say that’s because they are cynical,every team is cynical that’s Rugby you play to the limit of the law,that’s what made McCaw great, that is just smart.
other teams are not punished as much for it. -
@shark said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
However (you knew there was a however coming
), we also need to beat the ref. Saders seem to be judged to different tolerance levels. This isn’t a moan, it is a fact. You can argue that they have earned that over years but if I had the time and desire to go over the game with a stopwatch and comparative eyeI am pretty certain that I would find that on average turnovers are called very quickly when Sader hands are dangling into the tackle area while opposition players are left longer and once cleaned or partially cleaned, it is waved away.
One appalling ref attitude last night was the professional foul from Mounga. Cane questioned why such a deliberate penalty was waved away as any old penalty offence and was told that it was because the act was in their own half. WTAF? It killed an obvious counter attack opportunity (which is why it was done) and besides that was totally against the spirit of the game. At the very least Mounga deserved admonishing and the team placed on a warning for deliberate penalty offences. It smacked of tolerance for how they play.Oh dear. On the MP vs Canes thread you said I was stretching the truth when I called Barrett out for missing touch twice. But that was a stone cold fact. And now you claim it to be a fact that the Crusaders are refereed to a different standard, which is 100% subjective unless you're prepared to "go over the game with a comparitive eye and a stopwatch" and actually find some evidence to support your wild claim.
Thing is that the evidence has mounted for years much like McCaws invisibility cloak that annoyed overseas fans but we all chuckled because it was true.
It’s a human nature thing by the refs. I’m not claiming some kind of conspiracy and totally accept that it is part of sport and how a champion team is perceived and/or treated. Plenty of examples in other sports. Sometimes it even works in reverse as officials over reach to treat them harder.Rather than pointing to individual instances it is a weight of evidence over time and I’m not claiming they get the rub of the green every time. There is definitely an unconscious bias in play and that’s all I am saying that opponents have to overcome (alongside playing very well)
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@dan54 said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@stag said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Cane convincingly outplayed by Christie again. I’d say that Christie would be a shoe in for the All Blacks, but Foster………
Really?? I think you need to watch game again, I agree Christie had a blinder, but Cane had a pearler too, playing how I want a 7 to play at test level. Just watch how incredibly quick he is off ground after a tackle etc, and how good his defence is. I not in anyway taking anything away from Christie who reminds me of Matt Todd, will die for the jersey you think, and part of a pretty good loose forward trio, but not someone who screams test player to me. Papalií is also more of a test type player I think.
I'd also like to see Christie play a few games in a row at this standard. As I noted earlier this match was a leap ahead for him.
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@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Rather than pointing to individual instances it is a weight of evidence over time and I’m not claiming they get the rub of the green every time. There is definitely an unconscious bias in play and that’s all I am saying that opponents have to overcome (alongside playing very well)
What is this waffle? Total bollocks. The Crusaders are just better.
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@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Rather than pointing to individual instances it is a weight of evidence over time and I’m not claiming they get the rub of the green every time. There is definitely an unconscious bias in play and that’s all I am saying that opponents have to overcome (alongside playing very well)
Yes, I believe there is an unconscious bias. When we watch our respective teams it always seems the decisions go against them, the ref is unfairly scrutinizing them, they never get the rub of the green, etc. It is a natural perspective you have as a fan, which is not bad (cos it is fun yelling at the screen, right?) but the problem is a lack of awareness of your own bias.
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@chris said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@toddy said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
WTF was Leicester doing there. Really bad read on defence.
That was Fihaki defending at Centre who came in Leicester was defending at first five with Mounga on the wing .
I'll have to look when I get home, but I remember the number 13 shirt jamming in and leaving the gap for Nankivell to stroll in untouched
