All Blacks 2022
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
For some reason he ignored the fact that our success from 2011-2015 was largely based on the fact that we had an established XV that everyone knew
Every man and his dog in NZ could have picked the XV from 2011 - 2015. The team picked itself.
I understand the rationale behind picking and sticking with a settled midfield but part of the issue is no one has grabbed the jerseys and say 'pick me'. Goodhue looked ok at 12 in 2020 I thought but there were plenty that thought he was limited there and shoe-horned in from 13.
Teams around the world are having success with physical 12s - think Kerevi, Danty, Aki etc. NZ rugby has a guy who fits that mould in TUJ who is standing out in a poor backline - if he stays fit and in form you pick him - not think 'well it's too late'.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
This must also set some sort of record for only playing 3 nations at home in a season? (outside covid) and we don't have any warm up games for the All Blacks?
Ireland, a tier 2 nation, is our ‘warmup’
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@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Stargazer Here what you say but 2nd five is void.
Depends on how Fozzie is looking at it.
He's arguably got Goodhue, Havili and Tupaea available as 2nd fives (and maybe Jordie floating around) and only Rieko and ALB (injured) at centre.
I'm with those who think Ennor hasn't shown enough - but, he'll be in the frame - along with Big Leicester, the Umaga-Js, and maybe people like Sullivan and Nankivell.
Fozzie needs to decide where he's going to use Jack at the RWC and then he needs to play him there this year as a specialist and not fuck about moving him back and forth between 12 and 13.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
It's probably too late at this stage to bring in TUJ, Nankivell, while Tupaea & Fainga'anuku (both just 22) aren't anywhere near the finished product yet, as both are woeful defensively
I don't understand the thinking that it's too late to bring in new talent when there's nearly 20 tests before the RWC.
Does it not concern you at all - the fact that (ever since Wayne Smith left after the 2017 season) there has been zero effort made to establish an established backrow, midfield, back-three or halves combination?
Ian Foster has continually opted for rotation and 'options' over cohesion and established combinations. For some reason he ignored the fact that our success from 2011-2015 was largely based on the fact that we had an established XV that everyone knew. There were no surprises and for important tests everyone knew what our best team was.
If I've said it once I've said it a million times, selection is Ian Foster's biggest flaw. It's his Achilles heel. He is obsessed with experimentation and with rotation. He is obsessed with keeping all of his players happy. I suspect part of this is because he knows he's a dud coach and any whiff of a player rebellion would be the end of his career.
What Ian Foster should be focused on is building cohesion and combinations. Ma's Nonu and Conrad Smith didn't become the world's best midfield overnight. They gelled over many seasons of playing together. The Read/McCaw/Kaino backrow would never have been as good if players were constantly rotated in and out, and uncertain of their positions. They became the best in the world over time because they had time to grow and gel as a trio.
Disagree on the establishing a midfield post Nonu/Smith. The main problem there has been health. We have had players that they wanted to cement but between Crotty, ALB and SBW we had three players that seemed to get injured and with some regularity.
Now we are trying to reestablish with Goodhue and ALB but again injury has been an issue. Havili is a good player but I see him as a stop gap / good squaddie.
So we are in a situation where we have Ioane, one of our best wingers and a very durable player, that can move to centre (still developing), but who partners him? Again injuries will dictate that given where we are in the cycle
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
It's probably too late at this stage to bring in TUJ, Nankivell, while Tupaea & Fainga'anuku (both just 22) aren't anywhere near the finished product yet, as both are woeful defensively
I don't understand the thinking that it's too late to bring in new talent when there's nearly 20 tests before the RWC.
Does it not concern you at all - the fact that (ever since Wayne Smith left after the 2017 season) there has been zero effort made to establish an established backrow, midfield, back-three or halves combination?
Ian Foster has continually opted for rotation and 'options' over cohesion and established combinations. For some reason he ignored the fact that our success from 2011-2015 was largely based on the fact that we had an established XV that everyone knew. There were no surprises and for important tests everyone knew what our best team was.
If I've said it once I've said it a million times, selection is Ian Foster's biggest flaw. It's his Achilles heel. He is obsessed with experimentation and with rotation. He is obsessed with keeping all of his players happy. I suspect part of this is because he knows he's a dud coach and any whiff of a player rebellion would be the end of his career.
What Ian Foster should be focused on is building cohesion and combinations. Ma's Nonu and Conrad Smith didn't become the world's best midfield overnight. They gelled over many seasons of playing together. The Read/McCaw/Kaino backrow would never have been as good if players were constantly rotated in and out, and uncertain of their positions. They became the best in the world over time because they had time to grow and gel as a trio.
Just out of interest, who are the midfield backs that could of formed this combo. I not disagreeing with the idea, but there has hardly been any top midfielders who haven't been hobbled. I would personally love to see a midfield pairing running out time and again,, for some reason the last few years we can't seem to keep players fit in many positions. Seems a lot of players last a couple of tests then go down. You would think at moment Havili and Ioane are the two who have been fit. ALB and Goodhue a couple of good uns are injured a hell of a lot. Even in loosies we same, lost Cane with neck etc etc, and even on NH tour last year, the likes of Papli'i etc seemed to get knocks that stopped them playing a lot of games in a row. We seemed to have players with niggles etc all the bloody time , it was bloodt frustrating watching. I will say that I think we have a lot of players having to be stood down for head injury protocols too.
Then to top it off bloody players had been doing the naughty with wives and having time off for births etc etc. -
As classy a player Jack is, and likely still become, since his debut in 2017, he has only played 19 tests....he turns 26 this year, so is entering that period where our centres usually mature too...
Given he has never been the quickest centre, I do think he needs to focus on 12.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
It's probably too late at this stage to bring in TUJ, Nankivell, while Tupaea & Fainga'anuku (both just 22) aren't anywhere near the finished product yet, as both are woeful defensively
I don't understand the thinking that it's too late to bring in new talent when there's nearly 20 tests before the RWC.
Does it not concern you at all - the fact that (ever since Wayne Smith left after the 2017 season) there has been zero effort made to establish an established backrow, midfield, back-three or halves combination?
Ian Foster has continually opted for rotation and 'options' over cohesion and established combinations. For some reason he ignored the fact that our success from 2011-2015 was largely based on the fact that we had an established XV that everyone knew. There were no surprises and for important tests everyone knew what our best team was.
If I've said it once I've said it a million times, selection is Ian Foster's biggest flaw. It's his Achilles heel. He is obsessed with experimentation and with rotation. He is obsessed with keeping all of his players happy. I suspect part of this is because he knows he's a dud coach and any whiff of a player rebellion would be the end of his career.
What Ian Foster should be focused on is building cohesion and combinations. Ma's Nonu and Conrad Smith didn't become the world's best midfield overnight. They gelled over many seasons of playing together. The Read/McCaw/Kaino backrow would never have been as good if players were constantly rotated in and out, and uncertain of their positions. They became the best in the world over time because they had time to grow and gel as a trio.
Just out of interest, who are the midfield backs that could of formed this combo. I not disagreeing with the idea, but there has hardly been any top midfielders who haven't been hobbled. I would personally love to see a midfield pairing running out time and again,, for some reason the last few years we can't seem to keep players fit in many positions. Seems a lot of players last a couple of tests then go down. You would think at moment Havili and Ioane are the two who have been fit. ALB and Goodhue a couple of good uns are injured a hell of a lot. Even in loosies we same, lost Cane with neck etc etc, and even on NH tour last year, the likes of Papli'i etc seemed to get knocks that stopped them playing a lot of games in a row. We seemed to have players with niggles etc all the bloody time , it was bloodt frustrating watching. I will say that I think we have a lot of players having to be stood down for head injury protocols too.
Then to top it off bloody players had been doing the naughty with wives and having time off for births etc etc.I think ALB was fucked around a bit in a way we didn’t need. Had they asked him to focus on 12 (or 13), instead of constantly switching him, I think we’d have one piece.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
On pure current form, the best midfield would be TUJ - RI. However, I doubt Foster will give the 12 jersey to TUJ.
Mores the pity.
That fact that he is young does not mean that he isn’t part of the answer. He carries with power in a way that Tupaea cant quite do, he should take his spot.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Stargazer Here what you say but 2nd five is void.
Depends on how Fozzie is looking at it.
He's arguably got Goodhue, Havili and Tupaea available as 2nd fives (and maybe Jordie floating around) and only Rieko and ALB (injured) at centre.
I'm with those who think Ennor hasn't shown enough - but, he'll be in the frame - along with Big Leicester, the Umaga-Js, and maybe people like Sullivan and Nankivell.
Fozzie needs to decide where he's going to use Jack at the RWC and then he needs to play him there this year as a specialist and not fuck about moving him back and forth between 12 and 13.
Although I was not a fan of Goodhue at 12, I really think he and Rieko could form a formidable combination in the centres. It seems to me their games compliment each other, I hope they get plenty of opportunities together.
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R.I hasn’t done enough for me to warrant a 13 test jersey in the big games. I’d rather see him work his magic in the 11 jersey because he’s probably still the best left winger we have in this country.
I wouldn’t mind seeing JB get a crack at 12 with Goodhue in the 13 jersey. Chuck Reece on the wing and then Jordan at fullback to tear shit up.
In the halves I would go with the experience of AS and BB.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
I wouldn’t mind seeing JB get a crack at 12 with Goodhue in the 13 jersey
Didn't you say in another thread that you wanted the Hurricanes to remain largely unchanged? So that's a PUJ/Sullivan combo.
For Jordie to play 12 for the AB's he really needs to play there for the Hurricanes for the rest of the year -
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
I wouldn’t mind seeing JB get a crack at 12 with Goodhue in the 13 jersey
Didn't you say in another thread that you wanted the Hurricanes to remain largely unchanged? So that's a PUJ/Sullivan combo.
For Jordie to play 12 for the AB's he really needs to play there for the Hurricanes for the rest of the yearThat’s purely because we don’t have any other fullbacks on tour with the Canes so that’s probably the best makeup for that particular game.
Ideally I would love to see a Canes backline with Jordie at 12, PUJ at 13 and Sullivan at 14, but that’s probably not going to happen when Love and Moorby are injured.
For the All Blacks I would love to see JB get a run at 12 outside his bro, he certainly has all the attributes to do the job.
I’ve wanted Jordie at 12 for years and have mentioned it plenty of times in the past, he just needs time in the jersey.
In saying that I’m also a fan of the U-J twins so wouldn’t mind them getting a crack either.
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Fucking hilarious
Ioane hasn't done enough to play centre despite playing there over 2 seasons for the Blues, and excelling there. And playing well there in a couple of actual big tests
Barrett, however, has done enough to play test rugby at 12 after playing there for about a hundred minutes
Never change you Hurricanes nuffies
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@mariner4life he's also looked completely lost in some big tests aswell. Super Rugby isn't test rugby and despite his best efforts he still looks like a winger playing centre. There are better options south of the Bombays mate, he can jump back on the wing where he belongs.
I'd prefer more nouse in the midfield and someone that can distribute under pressure, obviously Leinert-Brown is injured so the next obvious centre option with proven experience is Goodhue.
What's your solution at 12 then? Keep Havili there? Chuck RTS into the fire? Pleeeasse. Jordie was a gun at 12 through his 20s so it's not the most out of the box selection.
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@Chris-B well he’s been out for a year and he’s played one game. Goodhue is too slow to be center and he was showed up before he was injured. None of the other guys you’ve mentioned really stand out as second five and as far as direct running Barrett is probably the best at it. Havilli doesn’t cut it. Foster is not the best one to navigate this dilemma we have.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
On pure current form, the best midfield would be TUJ - RI. However, I doubt Foster will give the 12 jersey to TUJ.
TUJ has only played a couple of part games at 12, although I thought he looked bloody good in one game, I hardly seen enough to see him close to ABs.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Fucking hilarious
Ioane hasn't done enough to play centre despite playing there over 2 seasons for the Blues, and excelling there. And playing well there in a couple of actual big tests
Barrett, however, has done enough to play test rugby at 12 after playing there for about a hundred minutes
Never change you Hurricanes nuffies
Well we see other picking TUJ too, I agree let's actually see a bit of rugby from players before we pick them. I reckon Ioane would have to have 13 tied up at this stage.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
If they're going to add newbies, that means they'll have to leave out even more players from last year.
This got me thinking.
How many players has Foster actually moved on from since 2019?
Liam Coltman.
Vaea Fifita
Atu MoliOtherwise Cullen Grace and Alex Hodgman come to mind (but they may come back in the frame this year).
That's an awfully short list and guys who were mostly very much fringe anyway.
So far Foster has simply not shown a willingness to make tough calls.
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Last year was unique for the size of the squad selected due to the covid circumstances. Foster has been quoted in saying there will be a number of players omitted from last year's squad, using the props as an example (8 reduced to 6 players).
Hopefully this is true:
"This year, I think you'll see us focus more on cementing combinations and having a bit more continuity in how we select the group."
