All Blacks 2022
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
be surprised if he doesn’t start there in the first big game against wales
That would be my thinking. And the Foster Co-op will use Japan to ease ALB back in and give Ennor & RTS some time as well.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
I don't think it's harsh to say Jordie showed more in one game than Havili has all year. That speaks to Jordie's performance more than Havili's.
Hard to compare really, based on one game against an out-of-sorts Wobblies. DH was pretty good against the Boks at Ellis Park which was a bloody hard game to win. We need to see how Jordie goes against some better opposition.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants
Does he not have eyes?
Jordie put in a near perfect performance at 12 after the slop served up by Havili.
Seriously, if he shuffles Jordie back to 15, fuck him.Really liked what Jordie did against Wallabies bit rein it in a little bit Frank, I not sure too may NH teams will put up such a week defensive 10 and 7 for Jordie to run through. I can't underrstand why everyone so worried if he named in tour squad as an outside back etc, hell Perofeta and BB are both named as 10s, doesn't mean they won't play at 15 if wantes, same as Scott Barrett at lock, he will play at 6 if it suits them.
I would add, although I don't consider Ennor as much, I not convinced Aumua is any better, another player I think may get stuffed a bit with strong defesive team, and certainly not one to create a lot for his outsides, though some good work on development team may help.I think we like about JB is that he hits the line hard, straight and in the space between defenders. He may not always break it but he bends it enough to take a meter or two and threaten an offload. He probably showed more in one game than DH has all year so it was exciting to watch.
I think you a little harsh on Havili mate, I think he was going bloody well at 12 when we were getting reasonable ball. Loved Jordie's game, but by geez no way have I written off Havili, or ALB either from the position!
I don't think it's harsh to say Jordie showed more in one game than Havili has all year. That speaks to Jordie's performance more than Havili's.
Mate I no way playing down Jordie's game, it was great, I always put a but on a one game performance though, as he did great running at Foley and Pete Samu, who aren't dominant tacklers by any stretch of the imagination, I still hoping he repeats performance against a beteer defensive team is all.
The thing with Havili is he isn't actually capable of playing a game like Jordie. He's smaller, can't bend the line like Jordie can, doesn't hit nearly as hard on defense, and his kick is considerably weaker. The whole "it was just one game" argument is flawed as people aren't excited by just that one game, they are excited about what Jordie can bring to the position.
Jordie is already a world class fullback, and it seems highly likely he would develop into a world class 12 with more time there. So really it's where to the ABs want to play him moving forward, and right now with Jordan and Beaudie at the back we have a much greater need for him at 12.
I don't agree with you concerning DH's kicking. It's probably the best part of his game. His main problems are : defense, how to break a line and to link with his outside centre ...
His triple threat… to his own team?
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants
Does he not have eyes?
Jordie put in a near perfect performance at 12 after the slop served up by Havili.
Seriously, if he shuffles Jordie back to 15, fuck him.Really liked what Jordie did against Wallabies bit rein it in a little bit Frank, I not sure too may NH teams will put up such a week defensive 10 and 7 for Jordie to run through. I can't underrstand why everyone so worried if he named in tour squad as an outside back etc, hell Perofeta and BB are both named as 10s, doesn't mean they won't play at 15 if wantes, same as Scott Barrett at lock, he will play at 6 if it suits them.
I would add, although I don't consider Ennor as much, I not convinced Aumua is any better, another player I think may get stuffed a bit with strong defesive team, and certainly not one to create a lot for his outsides, though some good work on development team may help.I think we like about JB is that he hits the line hard, straight and in the space between defenders. He may not always break it but he bends it enough to take a meter or two and threaten an offload. He probably showed more in one game than DH has all year so it was exciting to watch.
I think you a little harsh on Havili mate, I think he was going bloody well at 12 when we were getting reasonable ball. Loved Jordie's game, but by geez no way have I written off Havili, or ALB either from the position!
I don't think it's harsh to say Jordie showed more in one game than Havili has all year. That speaks to Jordie's performance more than Havili's.
Mate I no way playing down Jordie's game, it was great, I always put a but on a one game performance though, as he did great running at Foley and Pete Samu, who aren't dominant tacklers by any stretch of the imagination, I still hoping he repeats performance against a beteer defensive team is all.
The thing with Havili is he isn't actually capable of playing a game like Jordie. He's smaller, can't bend the line like Jordie can, doesn't hit nearly as hard on defense, and his kick is considerably weaker. The whole "it was just one game" argument is flawed as people aren't excited by just that one game, they are excited about what Jordie can bring to the position.
Jordie is already a world class fullback, and it seems highly likely he would develop into a world class 12 with more time there. So really it's where to the ABs want to play him moving forward, and right now with Jordan and Beaudie at the back we have a much greater need for him at 12.
Mate no argument he could develop into a world class 12, and I think you misunderstand my 'it's only one game' comment. It's not a put down rather a comment from someone who has seen a great game by players, and then a bad one, where it seems we remember the bad one if we against him etc. We see it all the time, I reckon Jordie will play at 12 a lot, will have the odd few bad/ordinary games ,like everyone, but I saying we judge him on a body of work not one game. I also know what you mean he can do things that Havili can't , but would suggest the opposite is also true and Havili does things that Jordie doesn't at this stage, probably better at placing kicks where he wants them, and a bit better timed pass. That is in no way saying I prefer Havili, but he also a good player.
Another thing is I always like to reel in my expectations as over the years I have seen the next big thing an awful lot in both NZ and Aus who are the world's best at it in my opinion. I think a lot of questions will be answered after he plays against some Aki type midfielders who are also big bash boys , especially with a hard tackling 7 etc. He will get there, I believe, but harder tests are coming mate. -
@Dan54 I get your point but we have seen a lot of Jordie.. and some have seen him a lot at 12 at lower levels so it is not the case of seeing a player play one game. Just like you can see x games of him at 15 and 1 game of him on the wing to know that a good coach wouldn't play him on the wing again...
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 I get your point but we have seen a lot of Jordie.. and some have seen him a lot at 12 at lower levels so it is not the case of seeing a player play one game. Just like you can see x games of him at 15 and 1 game of him on the wing to know that a good coach wouldn't play him on the wing again...
It is still a game and a half at this level (even the few at the level below) against opposition that aren't exactly the most feared, and more importantly, aren't of the type that we need to play well against to move back up the rankings.
Is he our best option despite flaws is the real question and the way to decide that is by direct comparison rather than early commitment. Let's see some in game swapping against the same opposition, lets see if he can play the gameplan that is required to defend against and open up the structured teams. If he is our best option then great. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 I get your point but we have seen a lot of Jordie.. and some have seen him a lot at 12 at lower levels so it is not the case of seeing a player play one game. Just like you can see x games of him at 15 and 1 game of him on the wing to know that a good coach wouldn't play him on the wing again...
It is still a game and a half at this level (even the few at the level below) against opposition that aren't exactly the most feared, and more importantly, aren't of the type that we need to play well against to move back up the rankings.
Is he our best option despite flaws is the real question and the way to decide that is by direct comparison rather than early commitment. Let's see some in game swapping against the same opposition, lets see if he can play the gameplan that is required to defend against and open up the structured teams. If he is our best option then great.Yep crucial, I all for him being our best option nothing would make me happier. and yes @nostrildamus I have seen him al lower levels playing 12 too, and generally likes what I saw too, and no way I disageeing with you. All I saying is let's not heap it all on him just yet. I think I have seen after living in Aussie in 24 of the last 26 years the number of players that are going to be the greatest thing who at club even super level look the goods then get rubbished because after a good game or something they don't continue to be the 'chosen' one. Jordan Petaia is among the latest ones, seem to expect the world, and I think can put them backwards quite a bit.
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Fair enough.
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just to temper the enthusiasm somewhat
i've seen some average players look like "the answer" after a good test against the Wallabies over the past decade or so
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@mariner4life like who? Genuine question. Has there been a NZ player who dominated the Wallabies and then failed to kick on?
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@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life like who? Genuine question. Has there been a NZ player who dominated the Wallabies and then failed to kick on?
Clarke perhaps. But the dury is still out.
PUJ, he even struggles to get past Proctor.
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@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life like who? Genuine question. Has there been a NZ player who dominated the Wallabies and then failed to kick on?
In recent times I’d say Fekitoa
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life like who? Genuine question. Has there been a NZ player who dominated the Wallabies and then failed to kick on?
In recent times I’d say Fekitoa
Certainly tough to get past Smith, Nonu and SBW. Was there any one performance where he looked like he might supplant them though?
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@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life like who? Genuine question. Has there been a NZ player who dominated the Wallabies and then failed to kick on?
In recent times I’d say Fekitoa
Certainly tough to get past Smith, Nonu and SBW. Was there any one performance where he looked like he might supplant them though?
Probably two Aussie games where he stood out and made everyone take notice, 2014 in Brissy when he scored that game winning try - he actually looked dangerous at 2nd 5.
Then Sydney 2016 test (post Nonu and Smith). In fact him and Crotty looked the business as a midfield combo in the first half. I think Crotty got injured and didn’t play the second half.
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that mulleted blindside who was pretty average but got heeeaaaps of tests based on fuck all more than beating up Australia
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
that mulleted blindside who was pretty average but got heeeaaaps of tests based on fuck all more than beating up Australia
I didnt think Akira still had a Mullet?
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@bayimports you forgot the Boom Tish
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@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life like who? Genuine question. Has there been a NZ player who dominated the Wallabies and then failed to kick on?
George Bridge. Played well against the Wallabies in Eden Park 2019 pre-RWC after the ABs got smashed in Perth in the earlier fixture.
He certainly had his moments at the RWC 2019 but I wouldn't say he ever 'kicked on'.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life like who? Genuine question. Has there been a NZ player who dominated the Wallabies and then failed to kick on?
George Bridge. Played well against the Wallabies in Eden Park 2019 pre-RWC after the ABs got smashed in Perth in the earlier fixture.
He certainly had his moments at the RWC 2019 but I wouldn't say he ever 'kicked on'.
Played in 2020 and 2021 ABS and had scored twice against the might of Japan as well.. Crusaders' fourth-highest try-scorer of all time to boot.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frye said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life like who? Genuine question. Has there been a NZ player who dominated the Wallabies and then failed to kick on?
George Bridge. Played well against the Wallabies in Eden Park 2019 pre-RWC after the ABs got smashed in Perth in the earlier fixture.
He certainly had his moments at the RWC 2019 but I wouldn't say he ever 'kicked on'.
Great Crusaders wingers don't make great try scoring ABs. They can slot anyone in there and they will get scores. But most are found begging at test level. Are there even any Crusaders wingers in the AB try scoring top 5?
Not even in the top 10 as of Oct 2021
