All Blacks 2022
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Tight 5 players who can carry with venom
that is a huge part of the problem, when they arent carrying, or getting us to or past the gain line, the additional load is going to others, taking them away from thier roles as well.
Often in the past 2 years our props have been there to hold up the scrum and make a few tackles, thier carries have been such that we expect SW & BBBR/SB to do extra carries, as well as our loosies, and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8, you want the game so he can roam and be available in the looser parts.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I don't buy that for the front row at all.
Who are we looking at there though?
LH Grout and Hodgman
TH NewellPromising but not yet standouts
Others?
Vaai looks good - even when got thrown in the deep end Bledisloe 2 in 2020 at Eden Park he was good. The lad needs to play - can't develop being a squad lock who only ever gets thrown token minutes.
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@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021
they were? People were scathing after the Fiji games. We beat semi-pros. Then Fiji. Then the worst Puma side in a while. And the Cooper and especially Kerevi-less Wallabies. The South African games were basically draws. We weren't playing well.
It went to shit results-wise after that, but the signs were there.
Look, I'm far from doom and gloom. Some stuff was good even when we lost. And we are loaded with talent in the backs. a bit straighter at 10, the right 12, some actual time together, and there are a lot of points there.
I have serious issues around the pack though. My thoughts on Savea, and what he doesn't bring are well documented. We definitely need more physically at 6, and a 7 to put heat on the ball. Tight 5 players who can carry with venom, and actually attack a ruck a necessity. And more accuracy at set piece. The players are there. If they insist on dad's fucking army up front, then fucking coach them.Around the time we beat the Argies, SA had lost to Oz and we were back to being No. 1 ranked team in the world.
There were even a few concessions that either Fozzie wasn't quite as bad as we thought, or that he'd been learning.
Without being too doom and gloom either, I think we have big issues in the forwards as well. I don't think we'll solve them by running out an uncohesive pack of fern favourites in the first test though.
TBH - if I was picking the team, the only change I'd look closely at for test 1 (compared to what I've ascribed to Fozzie) is Papali'i for Cane.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
Chiefs scrum this year has been pretty awesome no matter who was starting. Considering that it has been a bit mix and match and the youth of the locks it shows some good performances from some under-rated and often maligned players.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8
Do you mean Aride? Who was the forward with consistently the highest DB and CB in the forwards all games he played last year? Often he would have more than all the other forwards combined. I really don't get this idea that Ardie is not line busting etc, cos he bloody well is! He's our only consistently effective line breaking forward. Although in the big games our line breaks and defenders beaten across the whole team were pathetic, often less than 10 for the game
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
He was brought into an AB camp last year so must be in the mix. I'd select him ahead of de Groot myself, who has been disappointing to me. Ross can scrummage and doesn't need medical attention every few minutes.
Ofa needs to transfer his Blues form this year to the ABs, because he hasn't always in the past. He looked very passive taking the ball into contact last year, maybe due to the injury.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
Would like to see more of the players in the next 3 weeks leading up to the AB announcement, that will define selections one way or the other.
The selectors take a lot of interest in how players step up in the Finals when more pressure goes on.
I think a lot of people on the Fern will lock in the favourites for selection or disregard some in the next few weeks. -
@Machpants for me, he isnt a line breaking 8, sure he carries alot, and through determination and leg drive will make the gainline and sometimes bust through eventually, but this isnt always ideal as while he is struggling for those 2m the rest of the d line is set, or the occasion he wriggles free, he sometimes gets isolated behind the 2 guys he broke from.
There is no doubting his workrate and what he does he does very well, but what he does needs to be complimented with the rest of our loosies.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants for me, he isnt a line breaking 8, sure he carries alot, and through determination and leg drive often will bust through eventually, but this isnt always ideal as while he is struggling for those 2m the rest of the d line is set, or the occasion he wriggles free, he sometimes gets isolated behind the 2 guys he broke from.
There is no doubting his workrate and what he does he does very well, but what he does needs to be complimented with the rest of our loosies.
exactly sums up my impression as well.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
Would like to see more of the players in the next 3 weeks leading up to the AB announcement, that will define selections one way or the other.
The selectors take a lot of interest in how players step up in the Finals when more pressure goes on.
I think a lot of people on the Fern will lock in the favourites for selection or disregard some in the next few weeks.I'll be looking to confirm my prejudices.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants for me, he isnt a line breaking 8, sure he carries alot, and through determination and leg drive often will bust through eventually, but this isnt always ideal as while he is struggling for those 2m the rest of the d line is set, or the occasion he wriggles free, he sometimes gets isolated behind the 2 guys he broke from.
There is no doubting his workrate and what he does he does very well, but what he does needs to be complimented with the rest of our loosies.
exactly sums up my impression as well.
me three
i feel its one of the biggest issues we have with this "15 individuals having moments of brilliance" approach, one of them might break the line....but no one was with him and the rest of the world has been working on their jackaling..we loose the ball, they boot it and now we're back to attacking from deep broken play
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8
Do you mean Aride? Who was the forward with consistently the highest DB and CB in the forwards all games he played last year? Often he would have more than all the other forwards combined. I really don't get this idea that Ardie is not line busting etc, cos he bloody well is! He's our only consistently effective line breaking forward. Although in the big games our line breaks and defenders beaten across the whole team were pathetic, often less than 10 for the game
I had a look at the games versus Oz, SA, and Argentina (ESPN stats):
Aug 7 (Oz): Savea 0 DB, 0 CB (forward leader was BBBR 2 DB, followed by Akira with 1 and a clean break)
Aug 14 (Oz): Savea 3 DB, 1 CB (equal for forward leader with Akira who also had 3 and 1 and 30 more metres)
Sep 5 (Oz): Savea 0 DB, 0 CB (forward leader was Akira who had 9 DB and 3 clean breaks for 86 metres)
Sep 12 (Arg): Savea didn’t play, but worth noting that Akira led forwards 5 DB and 1 clean break
Sep 18 (Arg): Savea 2 DB, 1 CB (forward leader was Sotutu who had 3 DB and 2 clean breaks, Akira was not playing)
Sep 25 (SA): Savea 3 DB, 0 CB (leader for forwards, second was Akira with 1 DB)
Oct 2 (SA loss): Savea 4 DB, 0 CB (leader for forwards, second was BBBR with 1 DB – no other forward beat a man in the game)I think we need to find ways to get the ball in Aki's hands on the edges.
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@booboo I must be the only one who's willing to put some faith in him on here. I still like what he brings to the table and think he'll be a good bench option going forward.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I don't buy that for the front row at all.
Who are we looking at there though?
LH Grout and Hodgman
TH NewellPromising but not yet standouts
Others?
Vaai looks good - even when got thrown in the deep end Bledisloe 2 in 2020 at Eden Park he was good. The lad needs to play - can't develop being a squad lock who only ever gets thrown token minutes.
Wasnt considering the locks in that post
