All Blacks 2022
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
I think a 3/4 line of
13 Reiko , 14 Jordan , 15 Jordie , 11 Clarke / Reece
Has already got an abundance of pace and flair ,
Iām personally not sure you have to sacrifice a bit of safety under the high ball and kick returns , to add more pace and X factor .
Just think the balance looks pretty right to me but maybe Iām a bit conservative
Not sure that's a conservative three quarter line up. Looks fucking good. At least one part of the team does ... yay.
Trouble is 5 into 4 doesn't go. I suppose you could find a bench spot for the leftover winger if you considered Jordie as the midfield cover (assuming halfback and Mo'unga the other benchies).
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Asterik6 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
and the coaches would be idiots not to bring players like RTS who is already a proven world class athlete into the squad.
Genuine question here: How many games of top class Union has he played?
Professionally? 10 or so.
Schoolboy career as a rugby player though, so has a solid grounding. 12 is easier to read/play than 13. Still risky, but the question is whether the other attributes (stepping, defence) outweigh the experience risk. Either way, yo uhave to make a decision fast and he's in getting minutes, or out
I remember SBW being absolutely taken to pieces by Jamie Roberts on an EOYT where he was subbed at half-time for Nonu - and that was after 33+ games for Toulon. And we don't have anyone like Ma'a to fall back on.
Don't get me wrong, I really like what I've seen of RTS, just think the risks of putting him in the match-day XV against a world-class Ireland mid-field are way, way too much. Ideally, I'd like to see him in the larger squad and if that goes OK, on the bench for one of the later Tests so he can ease his way in.
My comment was around leaving him out of the squad, which would be crazy, he absolutely has to be there.
Pretty much agree so the coaches can have a good look at him - even if he doesn't get into the 23. A player def. worth investing time and effort in
Fact is we don't have a proven 12 right now. Thinking Tupea is that man is insane, he's as green as a green thing at test level and has only just started showing what he can do at Super level.
Not unlike RTS then?
when you compare RTS to the other options there's not much difference in terms of risk.
I disagree. You can argue that RTS's lack of experience at top level in the 15 man game makes QT look like a seasoned veteran.
Come on man, QT has 7 tests, most of which were against tier 2 teams, has he even started a test against a tier 1 team? I remember he was on the bench against SA? Hell he only has 28 games for the Chiefs. He's also only 23, do you really think throwing him in against a "world class" Irish midfield is a good idea at this stage of his career?
Isn't that exactly my point about RTS? And QT is still way, way more experienced - even if green
Point being we don't actually have a good option at 12 with ALB out now. I'd be leaning towards Goodhue starting with RTS on the bench at the moment, though I'd be more than happy with RTS starting too.
Yep. My guess is Goodhue at 12 with Havili on the bench. If Goodhue isn't fit, then Havili to start (shudder) with QT on the bench.
Tupaea started the last test of 2021 against France, Havili was demoted to the bench. It will most likely be Goodhue & Reiko starting with Tupaea providing impact off the bench.
Who would be the bench option for 15 cover do you think?
With that line up, BB to 15, RM to 10, or RI to wing, bench to 13, WJ to 15.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
I think a 3/4 line of
13 Reiko , 14 Jordan , 15 Jordie , 11 Clarke / Reece
Has already got an abundance of pace and flair ,
Iām personally not sure you have to sacrifice a bit of safety under the high ball and kick returns , to add more pace and X factor .
Just think the balance looks pretty right to me but maybe Iām a bit conservative
Not sure that's a conservative three quarter line up. Looks fucking good. At least one part of the team does ... yay.
Trouble is 5 into 4 doesn't go. I suppose you could find a bench spot for the leftover winger if you considered Jordie as the midfield cover (assuming halfback and Mo'unga the other benchies).
My thinking too.
60 minute mark Jordie moves to 12. Other winger comes on ( Think Reece is the better impact player but I accept ACT's point about his current form), Jordan moves to 15 and depending on how the game is going swap out the 10s.
This gives Jordie time in the midfield to see how he goes at this level, same with Jordan at 15 (who is our only other decent alternative at the moment). -
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
BB is more likely to move to fullback than be subbed off for Mo'unga. I think they'll want to keep the experienced players on the field.
Yes. But for RWC planning purposes we need Jordan to have some test time at the back (unless DMac is in their plans).
Happy for your scenario in the Ireland tests though. -
However, Stuff understands the veteran openside flanker has avoided any big damage and has instead been diagnosed with a strain.
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@TheMojoman said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Now, about those forwards....?
We're coming into the championship rounds now, but I really, really liked what I saw from Sotutu last weekend. Big work rate, massively effective.
If Ofa gets injured I think we're in trouble. Does Foster trust Samisoni to start?
Bloody better.
Ofa and Samisoni are two thirds of the starting front row. Loosehead is where they have big decisions to make.
They wont totally refresh things so I expect Sam W to be one lock. Vaa'i should be the other but it wouldn't surprise me if they go for Barrett.
Loosies will be the biggest point of fan argument. 7 must be Cane or Paps. 8 will be Savea (despite Sotutu playing well). Then it's just the old 6 'problem. I'm hoping that Akira can show good form in finals footy and demand that spotBower, Taylor, Ofa
Whitelock, Barrett
Papali'i/Cane, Savea, AkiraRes: Hodgman, Tauki'aho, Lomax, Va'ai, Papali'i/Cane
Right now, that starting 8 is pretty much what I'd expect Fozzie to pick for Test 1.
Cane over Papali'i, unless he decides Sam is no longer his captain.
I think Bower has the inside track at loosehead. I've been quietly impressed with him since Moody's injury, including his ball-carrying. Hard to see who would be ahead of him with Moody injured, Big Karl on a plane, and neither Hodgman nor de Groot (or anyone else?) having started/played in a big test.
I'll be very surprised if Tauki'aho starts over Taylor, though Coles might if he can prove his fitness. Right now I'm expecting Codie.
You'd think Ofa would be locked in - though I think Nepo will back him up. I'll be watching Newell and Lomax over the next few weeks - Lomax's shocker vs the Waratahs might see him pushed out. Newell is (I think) the same age and similarly experienced as Owen Franks when Owen got the call. If he can make every post a winner in the next few weeks he's a good chance of being in the squad.
Locks - when is Retallick back? If he's not in the picture then you'd think it will be the other experienced hands first up.
Ardie's a mortal lock at 8. I think Akira's size makes for a more balanced loose forward trio, but it could just as easily be Blackadder at 6.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Locks - when is Retallick back? If he's not in the picture then you'd think it will be the other experienced hands first up.
He's not been what he was. That injury then sabbatical have really hit his standard hard (sad face)
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie's a mortal lock at 8. I think Akira's size makes for a more balanced loose forward trio, but it could just as easily be Blackadder at 6.
fucking yuck. old broken Cane, Savea at 8, Blackadder. Just putrid.
behind those locks?That pack screams depowered and unexplosive.
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@mariner4life Well, don't shoot the messenger.
As I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
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@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
s I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
it wasn't in 2021 if we aren't learning lessons.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Well, don't shoot the messenger.
As I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
Why cos foster will finally quit? He didn't after losing to Argentina's, he won't even if he loses the bled this year. And NZR will believe in their own internally assessed hype
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
Failures in selection and development: Lomax appears to be a bust, they invested in Bower rather than any of the others with much higher ceilings, pissed around with Ofa in the LH (edited to add), invested in Aumua who appears to be a bust, took too long to move on from Pat T, and haven't been prepared to make Retallick earn his jersey for roughly three years. Place that alongside ignoring Akira for a couple of seasons, and the fact that they must select Savea and we look a bit like Wales in black jerseys hoping that AWJ will have one more good game in him and our variety of half 6/half 7 loosies will turn it on for one day.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
bit like Wales in black jerseys hoping that AWJ will have one more good game in him and our variety of half 6/half 7 loosies will turn it on for one day.
that's really not bad at all
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dunno, I think our tight 5 is still capable of contesting the collisions better, for me it is how we are playing, which is just too passive.
If the players start doing what is needed, that tight 5 will be more than adequate, sure it aint gonna dominate as we would like, but with our backs, it will be sufficient to give them the space they need to tear shit up.
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@taniwharugby more pick and goes like the second half vs France might be a good starting point.
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@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
