All Blacks 2022
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
I know it's probably too late in his career, but in a world where TJ is still the 2nd cab off the rank for us, I'm not entirely sure it's not worth reconsidering...
I'd have thought Christie would be 2nd off the rank. He slotted into Test rugby pretty easily - not spectacular but really solid. He seems to be a wee bit quicker this year for the Blues as well.
DMac is a frustrating selection right now. Where do you use him best? He was outstanding in 2018 but he's 27 so possibly too late to change to 9 now. I'd have him in my 23 as a utility player or the bloke you bring on to exploit the opposition in the last 20.
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@Victor-Meldrew yeah, Christie has put his hand up. Fair call
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
I reckoned we lost a lot without SA in Super , and that is what TT is suggesting.
Yep I been saying that for a long time.
But others on here don’t see it.I think there are a few of us who have said it at different times. Regardless of winning percentages, it was good exposure to different styles, players, and touring more hostile environments.
Yes totally agree.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Yep, he would've been incredibly beneficial towards our 9 depth & could've filled a gaping hole after Tawera Kerr-Barlow left.
Instead, his talent was wasted in the back three, having to compete with countless other quality fullbacks (B.Barrett, J.Barrett, B.Smith, Dagg, Havili, etc.)
We needed his skills & attributes utlized at 9, not fullback - where we had ample test-suited 15's who were bigger/taller.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
It's a funny one.
He says "They’ve maybe got to be a bit more innovative, try something new, and try new tactics, some new game plans, because the same old thing isn't working any more."
But it's just as much the case that we have just become really shit at the "same old thing".
Our scrum is average and our forwards don't win collisions. We have average forward runners to bend the line. We barely ever attack the other teams lineout ball and we have never managed a rolling maul like our best opponents.
Our backs don't straighten the line, they crab across and rely on way too many box kicks. We mix and match our midfield as if we are deliberately trying to avoid developing combinations.
Innovation certainly has its place, but I reckon the same old thing still goes ok too if done right.
I agree with most of that, except the midfield comments.
The way I look at it is Havili doesn’t make the squad if Goodhue and ALB are fit. In an ideal world we have ALB, Goodhue and Ioane playing as our midfielders and all of them have racked up a heap of tests together.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9, I not really into if you a shortie you immediately get looked at as a 9. Or like the idea that we go ok we got plenty of back 3 etc so lets move him to 9, I think you have to play 9 for a fair while to learn game there, and would of probably not got much rugby etc.
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Yeah, to be really good in any position it's vital that you have played in that position a lot... has Mckenzie ever played at 9 ? if he'd focused on halfback reckon he would be a really good one, he's as hard as nails, very quick & has a good kicking game.
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That's right, remember that, was never going to work as you need plenty of game time there.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
Not skills but being comfortable playing at 9 which only comes with experience. I personally have seen nothing in DMac's skill set that would make me think he would be a good 9. Even his tyle of play doesn't really make me think hell he would be good at 9, I think some are just looking at has size .
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If we are talking people who may have made good nines, I am going to suggest Reece. His darting around the ruck would have been handy.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
Not skills but being comfortable playing at 9 which only comes with experience. I personally have seen nothing in DMac's skill set that would make me think he would be a good 9. Even his tyle of play doesn't really make me think hell he would be good at 9, I think some are just looking at has size .
Nah, he has a reasonably matching skillset. Accurate passing, kicking from hand, game awareness.
The biggest issue isn't motor skills it will be things like decision making as first handler (e.g. left or right, short or long, shallow or deep) which need to be instinctive. Running lines are a massively important 'learned attribute' for halfbacks. It's all very well being a busy little blue-arsed fly but getting to the base of the breakdown efficiently can add to those split seconds that create opportunities.
These are experience based skills.All said though, I think he would do a good job in an emergency (like 2 halfbacks in a RWC squad getting injured and a minnow game coming up)
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
Not skills but being comfortable playing at 9 which only comes with experience. I personally have seen nothing in DMac's skill set that would make me think he would be a good 9. Even his tyle of play doesn't really make me think hell he would be good at 9, I think some are just looking at has size .
Let's compare him to current players that would be his peers: Running game would be comparable to Webber and TJP, passing at least as the next best after Aaron. Gamesmanship at rucks, putting the ball into a scrum, etc. would come quickly. If he had done this early in his professional career he'd be a walk up start IMO.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
If we are talking people who may have made good nines, I am going to suggest Reece. His darting around the ruck would have been handy.
one of the main positive takeawyas from last year was just how dangerous Reece looked in close. I would love for our coaching staff to let him have an open license to sniff around the fringes for opportunities (see the much more limited Lowe killing us in the same role last year).
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it's really funny how overrated college rugby can be on here
"oh, he played that position in college, he could absolutely do it in a test"
"oh, he can't play that position, he didn't start in college"
Jonah Lomu really should have been a number 8 at test level aye...
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Morgan Parra and Ruan Pienaar are two players that immediately come to mind as being able to play halfback and 1st 5. However, they are halfbacks who can play in another position, not the other way around. We've talked before about converting loose forwards into hookers but that process started once those players left school so they learnt the nuances of the new position before playing pro rugby.
