All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
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@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench
Though he hasn't played much against top tier teams, he's been a bit of a revelation at 9 for me.
Didn't really rate him that much in Super Rugby - just a good solid halfback - but he seems to be an equally good, solid 9 at Test level and looks comfortable in the Black jersey.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
i think general fitness will be fine, smith will have been doing everything he can to stay sharp, obviously match fitness is a step up but i would hope as he hasn't been away for injury it wouldn't be a huge ask
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
i think general fitness will be fine, smith will have been doing everything he can to stay sharp, obviously match fitness is a step up but i would hope as he hasn't been away for injury it wouldn't be a huge ask
He's a hard trainer for sure but I think that some here are underestimating what the week will take out of him. He could be absolutely fine to get straight into it but jetlag will catchup sooner or later and he could be really flat for the France game.
Let the guys that are there do the job (Christie starting IMO), let Smith find his feet and take it from there.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
There is no guarantee that DMac will be on the bench. He wasn't against Wales. I think they'll go for the TJP-Christie combo in this test.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench
Though he hasn't played much against top tier teams, he's been a bit of a revelation at 9 for me.
Didn't really rate him that much in Super Rugby - just a good solid halfback - but he seems to be an equally good, solid 9 at Test level and looks comfortable in the Black jersey.
He has a nice crisp pass and isn't shy on the tackle and he snipes. That's good enough for me at the moment
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I'll add that assuming that Weber is definitely out, Smith is there as insurance for this test. If one of TJP or Christie pulled up lame during the week or pre-match then they have another halfback to slot in. Halfback and hooker are two positions you don't want to be compromised in through late injuries.
But I'd definitely be playing Smith against France.
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"Right now we have three nines in hunt for this weekend's start,'' Plumtree said. "Aaron is only arriving Wednesday, he doesn't know what the plan is. So it's pretty unrealistic to think that Aaron is going to be playing at the weekend.''
Weber had to leave the field in the first half of the 47-9 win over Italy in Rome last weekend after suffering a nasty blow to the nose, and is still working through World Rugby's head injury assessment protocols.
Christie, who replaced Weber, also has a sore neck but Plumtree said he was still able to be involved in a practice on Tuesday and should be available for selection.
"TJ is pretty happy with his form. All of them are going pretty well,'' Plumtree added. "Obviously Brad has got these HIA protocols that he is going through this week, and Finlay has a little bit of an issue with his neck.
"But he trained today and (we) are expecting him to be fit for the weekend.''
Other than tighthead prop Angus Ta'avao, who is still recovering from an elbow injury, Plumtree said the All Blacks had no other injuries.
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@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
he doesn't know what the plan is
i reckon he knows it's "spin it wide at all costs"
i do
you do
the irish do
my nanna does, and she's dead -
Pretty sure TJ is being lined up to start vs Ireland.
They've said Smith is being called up "as cover", which sort of suggests to me that if TJ and Christie are both fit they'll be the pairing for this game (and that Weber isn't fit).
Of course, if our halfbacks shit the bed vs Ireland, I'm sure the coaches are pragmatic enough to get Smith in the team for France.
If they've got concerns about Christie, they'll probably be pragmatic enough to play Smith on Saturday - but, most people seemed to think he went pretty well vs Italy.
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Smith plays, Ireland won’t win.
Smith doesn’t play, Ireland can win.
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@mikethesnow said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Smith plays, Ireland won’t win.
Smith doesn’t play, Ireland can win.
That's kind of my take on it. Smith can't start though.
He is the most important playing in our team at the moment. Like NZ cricket when Kane Williamson isn't there.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
There is no guarantee that DMac will be on the bench. He wasn't against Wales. I think they'll go for the TJP-Christie combo in this test.
Sounds like Sevu Reece is fit - I reckon he'll be on the bench again. That's probably the most balanced sub, with Rieko covering the midfield and Jordan or Mo'unga/Barrett covering fullback.
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@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Aaron is only arriving Wednesday, he doesn't know what the plan is.
....its aaron smith....he decides what the plan is and it more often than not works
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
If they've got concerns about Christie, they'll probably be pragmatic enough to play Smith on Saturday - but, most people seemed to think he went pretty well vs Italy.
Finlay Christie being picked ahead of Aaron Smith - Jesus fuck no
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@frank said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
If they've got concerns about Christie, they'll probably be pragmatic enough to play Smith on Saturday - but, most people seemed to think he went pretty well vs Italy.
Finlay Christie being picked ahead of Aaron Smith - Jesus fuck no
No worries - it's not like we've never lost to Ireland before!
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For all the talk of Christie starting it 100% won't happen, TJP is a lock, it just depends if it's Christie or A Smith on the bench. I'd far prefer Smith.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
He has a nice crisp pass and isn't shy on the tackle and he snipes. That's good enough for me at the moment
I've been impressed with him - but sniping was not his strong point for the Blues. He often didn't even look at the gap in front of him, was so focussed on hitting runners outside him.
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@antipodean feels like an age since we just saw a blackline move resulting in the wing in clear space
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@nzzp alot of his play for the Blues is inferior to what he has done in Black, certainly taken his chances and stepped into international level well so far.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean feels like an age since we just saw a blackline move resulting in the wing in clear space
because we don't play a lot of shit teams that don't know how to defend space
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@mariner4life ha, that could be Northland defending that, I mentioned that very thing in my season review!!
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp alot of his play for the Blues is inferior to what he has done in Black, certainly taken his chances and stepped into international level well so far.
He's pretty harshly reviewed here, but he was good for the Blues too.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Be nice if our own backs could catch and pass like this last weekend...
Since we are doing Hugo Keenan appreciation: https://www.the42.ie/hugo-keenan-ireland-2-5596413-Nov2021/
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"TJ is pretty happy with his form. All of them are going pretty well,''
This says everything about our halfback stocks at the moment.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean feels like an age since we just saw a blackline move resulting in the wing in clear space
Sotutu try on Saturday wasn't bad, though!
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I miss Cruden, this is đŸ”¥
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@pakman Are you old enough to remember Bernies corner at Athletic park?
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman Are you old enough to remember Bernies corner at Athletic park?
I dug out a piece of Bernie's Corner and planted it in my flat in the late 90s. Was awesome
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@nzzp Exactly
That's one thing I miss about present day rugby , wingers scoring in the corner -
@berniescorner said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp Exactly
That's one thing I miss about present day rugby , wingers scoring in the cornerIn other words, "too much Bridge"?
Rush defences make it harder to spread the ball in traditional ways and if you manipulate to the wing the best wing skill is to make ground and do some interchange passing.
Then again a prime Lomu would still have he pace and power to go down the touchline. -
@berniescorner JK used to smash the corner flag
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman Are you old enough to remember Bernies corner at Athletic park?
I am, but never visited, as I lived in Auckland.
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@gt12 playing narrow and straight at pace. Beautiful way to pick apart a defense.
the step and offload were just the cream
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For those vaguely interested, a take on the likely/possible 23 squad members with a couple of other options for the weekend:
1 Andrew Porter/Cian Healy/Dave Kilcoyne
Porter made the move back across the scrum this season and has done well so far. Himself and Furlong can toss the ball around a bit. Healy, who tried out moving in the opposite direction to TH this season, is the likely bench replacement. Kilcoyne has not had enough match time this season, but may get a start against Argentina.
2 RĂ³nan Kelleher/Dan Sheehan/Rob Herring - Kelleher is starting to come good this season and his slightly erratic throwing of last year has improved. His likely bench replacement, Sheehan, may yet overtake him. Kelleher is excellent in the loose and has not been shy in grabbing tries at key moments. Herring is the most experienced of the 3, and Farrell may want him for the bench for the NZ match.
3 Tadhg Furlong - looks like he's enjoying himself and throwing no-look passes to his front row team-mates. When he gets into a gallop upfield a hard man to stop and now offloading too. Bealham, his likely support player, has been playing well for Connacht, but being used on both sides of the scrum, is not the specialist TH Ireland need.
4 Iain Henderson/Tadgh Beirne. Henderson came from the bench last week due to a return from injury. Farrell may choose to start him this week to put more heft in the pack, and put Tadgh Beirne on the bench. Henderson is the primary caller at the line out and will need to be on his toes. Beirne a great breakdown tackler/ball snaffler/penalty extractor.
5 James Ryan/Ryan Baird - Jas Ryan is still getting back up on the horse after his low standard performance last season and being omitted from Lions selection. Seen as a future Irish captain, Farrell would be loath to leave him out. Ryan Baird comes from the same school as James Ryan and has looked promising on his first five tests. Not as bulky but he can shift and even sidestep tackling backs to get tries.
6 Caelan Doris/Tadgh Beirne/Peter O'Mahony. Doris is another Leinster hot prospect who looked to take the 8 shirt at his club and for his country except Jack Conan decided otherwise. Unfortunately injured in opening minutes of his first 6 Nations match, he missed out last season. He's now back to full fitness, and has been a regular part of the backrow at Leinster and could continue doing that with Ireland - although Farrell has a lot of choices at his disposal. Doris might move to the bench if he wants to start Beirne, or give the wise head of Munster captain, O'Mahony a chance who's also a great line out option.
7 Josh Van der Flier/O'Mahony. VdF got a lot of feedback from his club and country coaches during last season and at the break on the work-ons he needed to do. He's lost a bit of weight, gets around faster, improved his link-up play and keep Dan Leavy out of contention since this return from a long-time injury. O'Mahony is the other possibility to start or to replace him after the break.
8 Jack Conan - a restored player who came into his own last season and made it impossible for Gatland to not just select him for the Lions tour, but to start him in each of the 3 tests. May not have all the bulk, but a pretty good link player, and fast on his feet for making runs up the middle.
9 Conor Murray/Gibson-Park. Farrell will have liked what he saw from JGP last week against Japan. The question is whether he'll still use a similar gameplay against a much tougher and street smart New Zealand. It might come down to who he'll be opposing. JGP nippy and fast passer, with good follow-up play vs old head Murray, a great reader of the game, good box-kicker, and still knows where the try-line is.
10 Johnny Sexton/Joey Carbery - of course Sexton's gonna play, of course he's gonna start. Enough said. Carbery is the one needing game-time and experience. Coming off the back of a long-term injury, the jury is still out in my mind if he's the right replacement for Sexton.
11 With Stockdale out injured, James Lowe got another chance to prove his credentials at test level. He had a quiet season with Leinster last year, and Farrell & Co gave him some homework to chew on, including losing weight and improving his aerial/spatial awareness. Likely to be targeted by NZ. Jordan Larmour is the other option but don't think he has it for this match.
12 Robbie Henshaw/Bundee Aki These two former club mates might be interchangeable. Of the two, Henshaw has been playing the better, but has been out with a foot injury until last couple of weeks. He's training with the squad this week, and has a good record of coming back on the spot. Farrell may still decide to leave him out, or possibly move him to 13. Aki is enjoying the freer style being pushed by Mike Catt, but still good at gaining yards in heavy traffic. No doubt, he'll be up for playing in this match with his usual infectious enthusiasm, but can be a bit of a penalty magnet with his tackling technique.
13 Garry Ringrose/Henshaw - another left out of the Lions squad and who didn't have a great season last year to warrant selection. Has set out to prove his detractors wrong and is doing pretty well so far. An elusive enough runner who is good at popping up in the right places to score or assist on a try.
14 Andrew Conway/Keith Earls/Zebo - you'd assume that hat-trick Conway might get another start, but Farrell might want to change his back-three slightly for the task ahead. Earls has plenty of experience and Zebo, back at Munster from France, still has that bit of pzazz to light up a game.
15 Hugo Keenan - the player who had everyone saying Rob who? as soon he got the 15 shirt off Larmour. Classy player, solid in the air, great link-up player, joining the line, and keeping attacks going. Must be one of Farrell's first picks at this early stage of his career. -
Do I have to ask the question?
You know, THAT question.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Do I have to ask the question?
You know, THAT question.
Could he have died?
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