Super Rugby News
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@duluth Carter was a bit different.
I'm not saying a hard and fast rule, but historically returning players simply are not as good as when they left.
Luatua may buck the trend, but that remains to be seen, whether he deserves special treatment of being selected for the ABs based on his NH play rather than play in NZ is more the issue.
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones I don't get what you are saying. The argument is whether or not players from the NH can come back and play at a highest level. Should it matter what nationality they are? If the South Africans can do it, why can't our guys?
Isn't the argument that NH players can come back and play well for the AB's? I mean sure, if the Saffas can do it, why can't our guys? I look forward to the ABs being as successful as the Springboks.
I'd class Japan as a bit of a misnomer, especially if someone is going over for basically half a season. It's a vastly different style of play and nowhere near as much of a slog.
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@bones said in Super Rugby News:
I'd class Japan as a bit of a misnomer, especially if someone is going over for basically half a season. It's a vastly different style of play and nowhere near as much of a slog.
Luatua spent a year in second division and will have just one season in the Premiership with no European Cup
His stint is unusual compared to other UK/French based players. I don't think you can read too much into what happened with other players
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Excluding DC and Kaino's sabbaticals (Luatua isn't Kaino class) as they're in a different stratosphere to most players then Lucky was probably the only top player who left at his peak and came should have been at his peak. But he came back without all his explosiveness, and even though he probably got close to being a genuine AB pick again, he clearly wasn't the same player who left.
Hell, Luatua may come back a better player, but the fact is he left NZ (not on a NZR sabbatical) and to get selected again he needs to play in NZ.
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@bones The three overseas based South Africans outplayed their Super 15 All Black counterparts pretty comprehensively which suggests that the step up from NH club rugby to Internationals can be done. Gietau and Mitchell also managed it for the Wobs in 2015. Besides, we are not picking Luatua for the World Cup squad right away, he will have the RCs to prove himself. If he fails, then Frizell gets the spot. Now that's a scary thought.
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones The three overseas based South Africans outplayed their Super 15 All Black counterparts pretty comprehensively which suggests that the step up from NH club rugby to Internationals can be done. Gietau and Mitchell also managed it for the Wobs in 2015. Besides, we are not picking Luatua for the World Cup squad right away, he will have the RCs to prove himself. If he fails, then Frizell gets the spot. Now that's a scary thought.
Oh great! Hopefully we could do even better than SA and be as successful as Australia then. Le Roux outplayed Smith comprehensively? Yuh huh. How long have Faf and Le Roux been overseas? Is the third one Louw?
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@bones Comparing the success levels of the respective countries to prove your point is hardly being fair. We are looking at one or two players here, not the whole squad. Of course I wouldn't consider Luatua if we had a bunch of other players to pick from. But when Frizell is deemed to be our second best option, then surely it's worth a shot.
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@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby News:
@nepia Kaino's wasn't a sabbatical I don't think? He just went overseas post 2011 RWC then returned.
Oh, I thought it was a sabbatical - or now that I think of it maybe it wasn't and I kind of remember thinking it was bullshit he wasn't offered one.
However, in that case I will repeat the bracketed: Luatua isn't Kaino class.
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones Comparing the success levels of the respective countries to prove your point is hardly being fair. We are looking at one or two players here, not the whole squad. Of course I wouldn't consider Luatua if we had bunch of other players to pick from. But when Frizell is deemed to be our second best option, then surely it's worth a shot.
I'd say it's being very fair. I bet lots of players from other SH teams come back and play well for their sides. But do they play to the level required to make the ABs successful? I highly doubt it.
So is the third one Louw?
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Can't see it happening, because it would be pretty special treatment to be allowed to arrive back a couple of months before a RWC and be parachuted into the team. Sending a terrible message to all those who who stayed in NZ to fight for spots.
If Stephen thinks this is a chance then perhaps he should change his name to Sonny, because there's not many who've been rolled out a red carpet of this length and Stephen hasn't really been one of Hansen's favourite sons.
How is he going in the NH?
There's actually a pretty substantial queue for those loose forward spots.
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Luatua was kind of a fringe AB pick at best, so he'd need to be putting in some pretty stellar performances to be considered in my view.
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@bones Luke Whitelock and Frizell both have been part of an incredibly successful AB team. Does this mean they are playing at a level that is required to make the ABs successful? I doubt it. Some would make that argument for Squire as well. Faf and Le Roux play for a lesser team but their individual levels of play are of a very high standard.
Yes, Louw outplayed Read. Granted Read is a far superior player but he was outplayed on the weekend.
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@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones Luke Whitelock and Frizell both have been part of an incredibly successful AB team. Does this mean they are playing at a level that is required to make the ABs successful? I doubt it. Some would make that argument for Squire as well. Faf and Le Roux play for a lesser team but their individual levels of play are of a very high standard.
Yes, Louw outplayed Read. Granted Read is a far superior player but he was outplayed on the weekend.
Ok now I know you're not being serious. Louw and Le Roux didn't outplay their opposites - and even if some consider they did, I'd like to know how it reached comprehensive levels.
Whitelock and Frizzel are certainly playing at a level to help make the ABs successful. What's Luatua doing?
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@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
How is he going in the NH?
I've watched a couple of Bristol games this season. He was very good in both of those. Kaino-esque on defence and his running game was still strong
Maybe Hansen has been underwhelmed by the people he's given chances to and got on the phone to Luatua?
Which would be funny considering how poor the communication between them was -
@nepia said in Super Rugby News:
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
Not Hansen's ratings - but, based on past patterns of selection the only things we can be sure of are that Read is first on the list and Akira is last.
