Super Rugby News
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby News:
@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
cent so it's not like he's coming from a dud competition. Once he gets back into the AB environment, he will get up to speed in no ti
yeah cos other ABs have slotted back into NZ rugby so well after playing well in the NH so many times before....
Who are you referring to? I can't think of many ex ABs who have returned to NZ at the peak of their careers. Based on your theory, we should be beating England by a record margin since they are all Premiership players.
Well England have only beaten us once since 2004 havent they?
That suggests their domestic comp is inferior
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
ho are you referring to? I can't think of many ex ABs who have returned to NZ at the peak of their careers. Based on your theory, we should be beating England by a record margin since they are all Premiership players.
so which ABs have returned and played well?
So because he is in good form there, that will translate to good form here? Seen plenty of former ABs playing well up there and then make little impact when they return. Not saying he cant, but history says he wont recapture his form from when he left.
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@taniwharugby Remember when Kaino came back from Japanese club rugby (which is far inferior to Premiership Rugby) and many doubted if he would be an AB again. Well, he started dominating in Super Rugby almost immediately and walked into the ABs. Class players will always step up.
Again, who are the ABs that you are referring to who have come back as duds? I'm not referring to 33 year olds who are well past their peak btw, but guys who still have a lot more to offer. Ranger is the only one I can think of but he was hardly a first or even second choice AB when he left. Luatua is only 27 remember.
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby News:
so which ABs have returned and played well?
Kaino, Carter
I don't think you can make a hard rule based on the previous handful of examples
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones said in Super Rugby News:
Luke McAlister really hit his straps when he came back.
The Bok players from up North seem to be readjusting to Test rugby pretty well. Faf and Le Roux killed us on the weekend.
Are the Springboks tge All Blacks?
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@duluth Carter was a bit different.
I'm not saying a hard and fast rule, but historically returning players simply are not as good as when they left.
Luatua may buck the trend, but that remains to be seen, whether he deserves special treatment of being selected for the ABs based on his NH play rather than play in NZ is more the issue.
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones I don't get what you are saying. The argument is whether or not players from the NH can come back and play at a highest level. Should it matter what nationality they are? If the South Africans can do it, why can't our guys?
Isn't the argument that NH players can come back and play well for the AB's? I mean sure, if the Saffas can do it, why can't our guys? I look forward to the ABs being as successful as the Springboks.
I'd class Japan as a bit of a misnomer, especially if someone is going over for basically half a season. It's a vastly different style of play and nowhere near as much of a slog.
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@bones said in Super Rugby News:
I'd class Japan as a bit of a misnomer, especially if someone is going over for basically half a season. It's a vastly different style of play and nowhere near as much of a slog.
Luatua spent a year in second division and will have just one season in the Premiership with no European Cup
His stint is unusual compared to other UK/French based players. I don't think you can read too much into what happened with other players
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Excluding DC and Kaino's sabbaticals (Luatua isn't Kaino class) as they're in a different stratosphere to most players then Lucky was probably the only top player who left at his peak and came should have been at his peak. But he came back without all his explosiveness, and even though he probably got close to being a genuine AB pick again, he clearly wasn't the same player who left.
Hell, Luatua may come back a better player, but the fact is he left NZ (not on a NZR sabbatical) and to get selected again he needs to play in NZ.
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@bones The three overseas based South Africans outplayed their Super 15 All Black counterparts pretty comprehensively which suggests that the step up from NH club rugby to Internationals can be done. Gietau and Mitchell also managed it for the Wobs in 2015. Besides, we are not picking Luatua for the World Cup squad right away, he will have the RCs to prove himself. If he fails, then Frizell gets the spot. Now that's a scary thought.
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones The three overseas based South Africans outplayed their Super 15 All Black counterparts pretty comprehensively which suggests that the step up from NH club rugby to Internationals can be done. Gietau and Mitchell also managed it for the Wobs in 2015. Besides, we are not picking Luatua for the World Cup squad right away, he will have the RCs to prove himself. If he fails, then Frizell gets the spot. Now that's a scary thought.
Oh great! Hopefully we could do even better than SA and be as successful as Australia then. Le Roux outplayed Smith comprehensively? Yuh huh. How long have Faf and Le Roux been overseas? Is the third one Louw?
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@bones Comparing the success levels of the respective countries to prove your point is hardly being fair. We are looking at one or two players here, not the whole squad. Of course I wouldn't consider Luatua if we had a bunch of other players to pick from. But when Frizell is deemed to be our second best option, then surely it's worth a shot.
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@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby News:
@nepia Kaino's wasn't a sabbatical I don't think? He just went overseas post 2011 RWC then returned.
Oh, I thought it was a sabbatical - or now that I think of it maybe it wasn't and I kind of remember thinking it was bullshit he wasn't offered one.
However, in that case I will repeat the bracketed: Luatua isn't Kaino class.
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones Comparing the success levels of the respective countries to prove your point is hardly being fair. We are looking at one or two players here, not the whole squad. Of course I wouldn't consider Luatua if we had bunch of other players to pick from. But when Frizell is deemed to be our second best option, then surely it's worth a shot.
I'd say it's being very fair. I bet lots of players from other SH teams come back and play well for their sides. But do they play to the level required to make the ABs successful? I highly doubt it.
So is the third one Louw?
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Can't see it happening, because it would be pretty special treatment to be allowed to arrive back a couple of months before a RWC and be parachuted into the team. Sending a terrible message to all those who who stayed in NZ to fight for spots.
If Stephen thinks this is a chance then perhaps he should change his name to Sonny, because there's not many who've been rolled out a red carpet of this length and Stephen hasn't really been one of Hansen's favourite sons.
How is he going in the NH?
There's actually a pretty substantial queue for those loose forward spots.
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Luatua was kind of a fringe AB pick at best, so he'd need to be putting in some pretty stellar performances to be considered in my view.
