Super Rugby News
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby News:
@Frye said in Super Rugby News:
So 16 teams and scrap pools? Everyone plays everyone would certainly make it fairer.
Means more travel but the sunwolves/jaguares already have to travel a shit ton anyway so again it's just making it fairer.
Might mean more NZ home semi-finals of course. Which SA and Aus won't like....
Currently we have 17 rounds followed by 3 weeks of finals.
If 16 teams and a straight RR then you could have two bye weeks, a quarter, semi and final. Straightforward and easy to follow.
The reason they muck around with the format so much is the obsession with guaranteeing a post RR game in each country.
I'm guessing a full RR but still 3 'pools' (NZ, Aus, SA& Arg). The winner of each pool gets a home game (as long as they are in the top eight) plus the next 5 highest placed teams. Match ups still 1 v lowest non automatic etc.
So lets say after the RR the table is1 Canes
2 Saders
3 Lions
4 Chiefs
5 Stormers
6 Highlanders
7 Blues
8 BrumbiesIf that
is the table based on points only, you'd get this table with the pool winners ranked first (as it's done now):1 Canes (NZ conf winner)
2 Lions (Afr conf winner)
3 Brumbies (Aus conf winner)
4 Saders (wild card)
5 Chiefs (wild card)
6 Stormers (wild card)
7 Landers (wild card)
8 Blues (wild card)and these Quarter Finals (pool winners and highest placed wild card playing at home):
1st v 8th: Canes v Blues
2nd v 7th: Lions v Landers
3rd v 6th: Brumbies v Stormers
4th v 5th: Saders v ChiefsIf the home teams won, you'd get these semis:
winner of QF1 v winner of QF 4: Canes v Saders
winner of QF2 v winner of QF 3: Lions v BrumbiesAgain, if the home teams won, the final would be:
Canes v LionsThe thing I don't like about that model (i.e. like the current one) is that it artificially raises a team up the rankings for finals. e.g. Brumbies become the number three ranked team which could, after only one game, end up with them having a home semi.
I'd prefer they stay in their 1-8 RR positions but the top team from each country/group gets a home game.
Of course the Saffies would be terrified of the Jaguares winning and taking their game to Argentina. -
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@Crucial I agree, but just don't expect that to change because the S Africans & Aussies are already going to lose teams, so they'll never let go of that home QF advantage as well.
i'm probably not explaining my concept well or it is so obtuse that it wouldn't fly anyway.
Basically the teams are ranked 1-8 based on the RR but there are still guaranteed home quarters for each 'group'.
So, even if the top Oz team is number 5 they still get a home quarter but the semis are drawn on the RR rankings only.
so your order is the way the quarters are worked out but it reverts to RR rankings for semis.
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby News:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@Crucial I agree, but just don't expect that to change because the S Africans & Aussies are already going to lose teams, so they'll never let go of that home QF advantage as well.
i'm probably not explaining my concept well or it is so obtuse that it wouldn't fly anyway.
Basically the teams are ranked 1-8 based on the RR but there are still guaranteed home quarters for each 'group'.
So, even if the top Oz team is number 5 they still get a home quarter but the semis are drawn on the RR rankings only.
so your order is the way the quarters are worked out but it reverts to RR rankings for semis.
If Quarter finals would be based on total competition points earned in RR, but conference winners play at home, then you have a problem, because - using your list - the number 1 v number 8 game would be the NZ conference winner v the Aussie conference winner, and then the higher placed Canes would play at home and the lower ranked Brumbies wouldn't get their "guaranteed" home quarter final.
Unless you'd step away from the 1st v 8th, 2nd v 7th, 3rd v 6th and 4th v 5th rule, but then it would become completely arbitrary who plays who ...
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Ha, I'm not doing a good job of selling this concept which probably means it is likely to be what the fish heads come up with as well.
I'll try one more time.
For the purposes of deterring quarter finals you effectively bump the group winner up. From the semis on though, the draw is decided on true RR rankings
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@Crucial Okay, so you'd still get these Quarter Finals (conference winners and highest placed wild card playing at home):
Ranking after RR:
1 Canes (NZ conf winner)
2 Lions (Afr conf winner, bumped up)
3 Brumbies (Aus conf winner, bumped up)
4 Saders (wild card)
5 Chiefs (wild card)
6 Stormers (wild card)
7 Landers (wild card)
8 Blues (wild card)Quarter Finals
1st v 8th: Canes v Blues
2nd v 7th: Lions v Landers
3rd v 6th: Brumbies v Stormers
4th v 5th: Saders v Chiefsand, assuming the home teams win, their RR ranking is (without conference winners being bumped up):
1 Canes
2 Saders
3 Lions
4 BrumbiesThen the semis are:
SF1: Canes v Brumbies
SF2: Saders v LionsIf home teams win again, you'd get this final:
Canes v Saders -
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby News:
Sounds like Milner Skudder is out at least 6 weeks with a fractured foot.
Christ that bugger is made of glass. Well at least it gives JB a chance to start.
NMS is a brilliant player but his chances of surviving 3 Lions tests are probably zero.
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A further update.
Report: Super 15 with 3 teams axed.
TVNZ's Andrew Saville is reporting that two South African franchises and an Australian side will be axed as Super Rugby will be reduced to 15 teams.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11818693
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@KiwiMurph doesn't the current TV deal run through to end of 2019, so I wonder if they are driving this otherwise a complete renegotiation there would be required as well.
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@taniwharugby the TV money question is the big one IMO. Will the SARU and ARU now get less of the cut now that they have less teams? Can they afford it? What trade-offs will be required for them to accept that? If NZ has the most teams, can we now negotiate a bigger cut?
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@taniwharugby Yeah I understand there was the flexibility in the current deal to look at potential changes so they weren't locked into the 18 team comp til 2019/2020.
I do think Super 15 would be much smoother of the options. You could have 3 even conferences and then a 6 or 8 team finals system.
Chucking the Sunwolves in the Aussie conference could work timezone wise and would mean that they could play all their home games in Japan.
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby News:
@taniwharugby the TV money question is the big one IMO. Will the SARU and ARU now get less of the cut now that they have less teams? Can they afford it? What trade-offs will be required for them to accept that? If NZ has the most teams, can we now negotiate a bigger cut?
I have no way to back this up but IIRC SARFU negotiate the TV rights for SR and TRC as a package, and that the value of the test comp is relatively greater. It might not matter too much if they have less teams as they are still a big draw in the tests
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It looks like the Blues will get an easy game this week, with Crotty the only experienced Crusaders back still playing..
Crusaders injury update: Israel Dagg, Seta Tamanivalu, Digby Ioane
Israel Dagg has had an MRI scan which has confirmed a PCL and lateral meniscal injury. He has been seen by a specialist who has recommended a small operation to assist his recovery. He is expected to be ready to return to play in approximately 6 weeks. Seta Tamanivalu is progressing well after sustaining a right upper hamstring injury last weekend against the Reds. His return to play is expected to be in the vicinity of 4 weeks. Digby Ioane has also been ruled out with injury this week, after sustaining a minor hand injury. The injury will be assessed early next week before a decision will be made about his availability for the following weekend's game against the Force. -
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby News:
A further update.
Report: Super 15 with 3 teams axed.
TVNZ's Andrew Saville is reporting that two South African franchises and an Australian side will be axed as Super Rugby will be reduced to 15 teams.
But the Cheetahs coach said only two. So I thought about it, and I reckon this is what is happening...
- Bye bye one of the Rebels/Force/Brumbies
- Bye bye the Kings and the Cheetahs...for half a season each...complete genius by Sanzaar...
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Cheetahs have made the semi-finals
Western Force have been around just as long and never made the play-offs.
This is the Rebels 8th year and they haven't and won't make the play-offs this year.
The Australian sides sign South Africans because they have no depth.The Sunwolves nearly had a 100 points put on them by the Cheetahs last year and look like schoolkids playing against professionals half the time.
And yet the Cheetahs are the ones to miss out? What a joke.
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The Rebels have private equity. The ARU doesn't have the cash to kick them out.
The Force have among the best membership rates, large expat community in a city five-times the poulation of Canberra. Last weekend it had more home developed players than the Brumbies.
The Brumbies have required players from elsewhere their entire existence, only makes losses and have something seriously rotten in their governance. -
@antipodean that might be the deciding factor, some seriously shady shit has gone down there, and that still hasn't been cleared up.
@cheetahsBO mate you are over-egging it. They have been back in for 11 seasons. They came 6th once, and lost the qualifying final (they didn't make the semis). Every other season it's 10th or worse. They aren't really bringing much to the table.
