All Blacks vs Springboks II
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cant get away from the fact the Bok forwards were just better They deserved to win Regrettably some of our forwards dont have a McCaw motor
I know he got around a lot but there was only ever one McCaw in the All Blacks. In twenty years time or so hopefully it is a different story (somebody hide Gemma's hockey sticks)..
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I must have watched the final stages about 20 times by now and noticed this: Following the SA kick off, once the scrum is awarded, Richie clearly instructs Asafo to take an injury break so they can have a strategy meeting. Rieko’s body language gives it away as does Asafo when he looks at Brodie as he does it. The medic comes on initially and chats to Asafo but this is obviously just part of the drill. A few seconds later the second medic comes on and pretends to be looking in his bag. At this point medic #1 walks over to the strategy meeting at which point Ardie is offering instructions so he just hangs on the outside and then after a few camera cuts and second passed is then seen talking with Brodie.
So the ABs just the same as the Boks doing it in the first half soooo obviously after a line break when the crowd weren’t having it.
And on those 2 carries after the scrum - now I maybe miles off here, so please fill me in - why attempt to win the contact? Why not just go sideways or backwards?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
That no clear release made me lose my shit.
You have a point, and a right to feel aggrieved, but that line above just looks darn funny to me.
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End of the day , the loss is probably a reality check of where we are at ,
A narrow win may have papered over the cracks
Still plenty to work on
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Another thing that I don't think has been mentioned yet is how easy it is for teams to pin us in our own half following kick off. This has been a problem for a few years now. Last night the Boks were superb at it. Kick long and high to give the chasers time to get in a defensive position. Then stop the ensuing maul, smash our one off hit up and pressure the subsequent kick. We end up defending a lineout between our 22 and 10 metre line if we are lucky.
We miss a long punting game, especially at 10.
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@crazy-horse True, and it's because we are sticking to the conventional method of having the 10 kick it out. BB doesn't have the biggest punt and neither does Richie. Why not utilise Havili's boot or Jordie's?
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@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@crazy-horse True, and it's because we are sticking to the conventional method of having the 10 kick it out. BB doesn't have the biggest punt and neither does Richie. Why not utilise Havili's boot or Jordie's?
Jordie has had problems with having his kicked charged hasn't he? Agree, he does have a bigger kick though.
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DISCLAIMER: have only watched the game once
I thought i was a cracker, particuarly the first half.@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
How is it the Wallabies can put the Boks to the sword?
Well you can talk about the Boks "lifting" for the ABs
I guess, as a few others have done.I think first in favour of the Boks it was selection: they've played mostly the same players all tour, particularly the spine of the side, and they finally clicked in terms of lowering their error rate - that's the first key in beating the ABs. By contrast, the ABs are missing a few of their best and that hurts them in the pivot - Aaron Smith probably adds 5% to any team he's playing in.
Second point was Kwagga Smith. That guy changed the dynamic of the back row battle significantly, and gave the Boks a ruck presence they didn't have against the Wallabies. They learned from having the 2 Pommy refs against us that they needed more at ruck time in addition to Kolisi. Kwagga was MOTM for me in both games. Against us, the Boks played Mostert instead, and tried to out-do us physically, but that didn't happen because their fitness led to poor discipline.
But it must be said the main difference is game plan. Someone said on Twitter last night that the Trinations were a bit of rock/paper/scissors and to a degree, that's true.
ABs haven't changed in several years - the aim of the game is being fitter than everyone, and racking up turnover runaway tries. "You miss I hit" being the basic premise.
From where I'm sitting, they are not actually creating much except opposition mistakes to run at a fractured line, and fitness to keep doing that all game. Once the turnovers dry up, or you get the ball against a set line with a high percentage tackle success, things get sticky.
When this happens, the AB back line doesn't appear to run anything like a complex move or any subtletly with bodies in motion. They just expect something to happen.
The Boks kick it, the ABs run it back against a set line, with a structure you'd basically teach to juniors - space out, run straight, support each other at the ruck. Rarely any changes of angle or dummy runners. I can't even remember a decent cut-out pass that found the man because the Boks were just rushing it so easily.
If you're going to run wide, run from depth. So many times it appeared an AB player got the ball with little chance to run onto it at pace and make a directional change at the same time. In the first Boks v Wallabies, Kellaways' try came because FdK rushed a deeply-set Kerevi and he shifted subtly to avoid it - suddenly there is space, and that was the 5th phase after the lineout.
So you could say the Boks have the right game plan for the ABs.
The Wallabies have the right game plan for the Boks.
The ABs have the right game plan for the Wallabies. -
I'd also add that Neinaber's move to replace his front row just before halftime was good coaching. Firstly, none of those starting guys are fit enough to play Test Rugby, and weren't contributing except at set piece.
Secondly, when you look at the way the ABs have lost their cohesion late in the game when subs come on, it meant his fitter front rowers could have more impact on the game at set piece and around the park.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Shit tactics. Didn't adjust to their ruck tactics.
Very poor captain selection.
No real game plan worse than last week,we learnt nothing.
I blame TJP and Mo'unga at the end. Pick and goes are always 50/50.
Mo'unga really struggles against teams like the Boks and England who are super physical on defense. He got smashed when he came on and hardly featured after that.
I thought Beauden (cross kick in the 2nd half aside) showed why he is our best 10 tonight. Mounga always struggles when his pack is getting beaten. Beauden did good stuff in-spite of a struggling pack.
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From the scrum in the 78th, the ABs had no excuse not to win that game. A couple of pretty sloppy mistakes let the Boks have it.
That said, I cant remember the last time I saw a team successfully play out the last 90 seconds of a game with one-out forward hit ups. The refs are so thirsty for a penalty in those moments, and they find one 90% of the time.
I wonder if it might be better to grubber the ball into touch 30m out. Yes you give it back to them but it's much harder for them to score from there than 20m out.
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@bobily2 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
We need a specialist lineout coach, no matter what it costs. Frustrating to see the same weakness 5 games in a row.
no, just need Sam W. back. He has shown he is our first choice lock for the big games. Any other combo can play that lesser lights. But Sam is a must against SA, Eng.
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Looking more closely at the ABs:
Was Christie available? Because TJP isn't improving and it might be time to move on. Mean haka tho.
B Barrett looked hesitant, and not just because of the rush defence. He looks to me like he's carrying a niggle.
Patty Tuipulotu - for such a big lump, AB scrum seems to go backwards a bit when he's on.
J Barrett by far your most valuable player. Wish the Wallabies had a fullback with that combination of size, pace and calm right now.
S Barrett not far behind in the value stakes.
I'm not sure Moody and Laulala were the right guys to start. Both look a bit underdone and Laulala has no excuse in that department.
My lasting impression is that the AB pack got bossed and that contributed to the stagnant performance.
I thought the decision to try and wind down the clock was not the best, given the ruck work of the Boks and the risk of English interpretation for the defending side. Might have been better off kicking to corner or putting up a high ball and letting the Boks trip over themselves, tho Steyn was in good touch.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
DISCLAIMER: have only watched the game once
I thought i was a cracker, particuarly the first half.@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
How is it the Wallabies can put the Boks to
ABs haven't changed in several years - the aim of the game is being fitter than everyone, and racking up turnover runaway tries. "You miss I hit" being the basic premise.And because Foster is just an extension of the Hansen era things may not change. We were all clamoring for a change but the NZRFU does what is has done for years. Unfortunately you have the better coach so the rivalry might just intensify which would be good for both countries but more so for Oz.
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@broughie said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
DISCLAIMER: have only watched the game once
I thought i was a cracker, particuarly the first half.@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
How is it the Wallabies can put the Boks to
ABs haven't changed in several years - the aim of the game is being fitter than everyone, and racking up turnover runaway tries. "You miss I hit" being the basic premise.And because Foster is just an extension of the Hansen era things may not change. We were all clamoring for a change but the NZRFU does what is has done for years. Unfortunately you have the better coach so the rivalry might just intensify which would be good for both countries but more so for Oz.
And, in that, occasional losses are good.
But the nature of this one - 1 point, mighty struggle etc might mask all this.
Bring back A Smith and Whitelock and suddenly things improve, which is a sign that it is more about the people than the plan.
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@tordah said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Can't win all the games, ABs 2010-2015 vintage was something special. It's still a very good team, but losing so many of the World XV was sure to have an impact. Still very likely the best team in the world, Boks lost three on the trot and ABs just the one. But Boks played better on the night.
2016 & 2017 were pretty sharp too. Then Hansen started getting cute with selections and suffered amnesia around how to win World Cups with experience and settled combos. All about the same time we dropped that game to Ireland in the US. Call it the Chicago Curse.
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Late to the thread after a great watch this morning. Test match footy - wow. Such great physicality, two super committed teams just bashing each other, but still with some skills on display.
Really enjoyed the game, and congratulations Bokke. Earned that win big time; brough the physicality, but also played. I thought the pace would catch up with them, but they kept at it for 80.
Anyone pointing to a single AB who cost us this game can get knotted. We lost this up front, and it wasn't on one individual. For every brain fart we had, so did SA. It was just a proper tussle of a test match. Springbok forwards were excellent, and we were second best on the night.
Have to mention the ref though - started really well, and it is a tough gig, but some of the calls appeared inconsistent as all hell. Still, you have to be better.
Fact is, we had the ball, with a lead, and a scrum on halfway, with 90 seconds to go and blew it. I know coaches love to run it out with forward pods, but as @barbarian said, refs are thirsty for penalties, and seem to hate the clock being run like that. A few years ago it was Beale kicking a penalty on the high veldt to win; tonight the ref will find someone for sealing. I've always thought it's a low percentage play. Go back to 2015 RWC Semi, and we kicked for the corners as the Bok didn't have good exits. I'd do the same again here frankly, and back our defence.
So, the younger AB will have learned plenty over the last fortnight, and so will Foster. Savea is an outstanding player, but not a grreat captain at this level. JB was our best player in both games. Lock is no longer a position of strength for us.
Our tighties used to be the point of difference with opposition sides with how they carried and passed the ball. I'm not seeing it any more - plenty of handling mistakes (Moody - where the hell is the 2015 ball playing prop who arrived?) - and lots of falling over into contact.
Ball protection was often non-existent, and a massive workon for us.So, in the wash, all you can say is well done Bokke, and roll on the EOYT and 2022. Hope we both go up north and put sides away.
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