All Blacks vs Springboks I
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@jr_ said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
How would you prove it anyway? That's impossible.
Of course we know faking injuries feeds into the Bok game plan of slowing the game down. In fact, faking an injury give them a LONGER breather than simply walking to a lineout.
What would be interesting is for someone to count how many times the Boks go down in games but the "injured" player then continues playing vs how many times this happens for other teams. Perhaps this was just a one-off, but I doubt it.Exactly, it is impossible to prove. But the fact that it "feeds into our plan" doesn't make it so either. I just think this general line is being overcooked a bit. It started with the Lions tour (where the Bok boring rugby narrative also took hold) and now seems to be something for everyone to bitch about every week. Agree one would need some stats on it to get a real view....I also think the Boks are too negative on tempo and they need to up it. The slow walk everywhere and trudging to the line outs is just too defensive. Get some fucking spring in your step man!
The Boks probably can't stay with us in a speed game. So it is logical that they would try everything to slow and shorten the game. I blame the ref for letting them do it. He was shockingly bad
The ref was fine. Your pommie or Irish origins are shining thru there.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Must be boring at SA trainings for guys in jersies 11-15
Is that better or worse than AB forwards being humiliated in actual matches? Like WC semi finals.
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@jr_ said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
How would you prove it anyway? That's impossible.
Of course we know faking injuries feeds into the Bok game plan of slowing the game down. In fact, faking an injury give them a LONGER breather than simply walking to a lineout.
What would be interesting is for someone to count how many times the Boks go down in games but the "injured" player then continues playing vs how many times this happens for other teams. Perhaps this was just a one-off, but I doubt it.Exactly, it is impossible to prove. But the fact that it "feeds into our plan" doesn't make it so either. I just think this general line is being overcooked a bit. It started with the Lions tour (where the Bok boring rugby narrative also took hold) and now seems to be something for everyone to bitch about every week. Agree one would need some stats on it to get a real view....I also think the Boks are too negative on tempo and they need to up it. The slow walk everywhere and trudging to the line outs is just too defensive. Get some fucking spring in your step man!
The Boks probably can't stay with us in a speed game. So it is logical that they would try everything to slow and shorten the game. I blame the ref for letting them do it. He was shockingly bad
The ref was fine. Your pommie or Irish origins are shining thru there.
I don't blame the ref for letting them do it. He doesn't have the tools to stop them with regard to injury feigning.. I do blame him for not allowing the ABs the ability to play their preferred way when they have won the right though.
As mentioned earlier he didn't allow quick taps, didn't enforce the 'hurry up' messaging, walked to the mark after an advantage....
He was very quick to try and stamp his authority on other aspects of the play eg no warning for closing space while a lineout was being set up. Pinging Moody for repositioning his feet for stability. Why couldn't he stamp his mark for delaying tactics at the set piece.
The AB leaders need to more onto it as well. Keep showing that you want to play quickly by being ready at lineouts, make sure you are last to stand up at scrum setups, take taps then when called back make the point that the ref needs to be quicker..... -
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@jr_ said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
How would you prove it anyway? That's impossible.
Of course we know faking injuries feeds into the Bok game plan of slowing the game down. In fact, faking an injury give them a LONGER breather than simply walking to a lineout.
What would be interesting is for someone to count how many times the Boks go down in games but the "injured" player then continues playing vs how many times this happens for other teams. Perhaps this was just a one-off, but I doubt it.Exactly, it is impossible to prove. But the fact that it "feeds into our plan" doesn't make it so either. I just think this general line is being overcooked a bit. It started with the Lions tour (where the Bok boring rugby narrative also took hold) and now seems to be something for everyone to bitch about every week. Agree one would need some stats on it to get a real view....I also think the Boks are too negative on tempo and they need to up it. The slow walk everywhere and trudging to the line outs is just too defensive. Get some fucking spring in your step man!
The Boks probably can't stay with us in a speed game. So it is logical that they would try everything to slow and shorten the game. I blame the ref for letting them do it. He was shockingly bad
The ref was fine. Your pommie or Irish origins are shining thru there.
Think we watched different games.
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@rapido said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Must be boring at SA trainings for guys in jersies 11-15
Is that better or worse than AB forwards being humiliated in actual matches? Like WC semi finals.
I honestly think id rather enjoy the 40 odd games between WC's and loose that watch that every game...id lose interest in rugby before the next "success"
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@jr_ said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
How would you prove it anyway? That's impossible.
Of course we know faking injuries feeds into the Bok game plan of slowing the game down. In fact, faking an injury give them a LONGER breather than simply walking to a lineout.
What would be interesting is for someone to count how many times the Boks go down in games but the "injured" player then continues playing vs how many times this happens for other teams. Perhaps this was just a one-off, but I doubt it.Exactly, it is impossible to prove. But the fact that it "feeds into our plan" doesn't make it so either. I just think this general line is being overcooked a bit. It started with the Lions tour (where the Bok boring rugby narrative also took hold) and now seems to be something for everyone to bitch about every week. Agree one would need some stats on it to get a real view....I also think the Boks are too negative on tempo and they need to up it. The slow walk everywhere and trudging to the line outs is just too defensive. Get some fucking spring in your step man!
The Boks probably can't stay with us in a speed game. So it is logical that they would try everything to slow and shorten the game. I blame the ref for letting them do it. He was shockingly bad
The ref was fine. Your pommie or Irish origins are shining thru there.
Think we watched different games.
he was not good in a lot of areas but he was not the reason for the games being enjoyable to watch
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rapido said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Must be boring at SA trainings for guys in jersies 11-15
Is that better or worse than AB forwards being humiliated in actual matches? Like WC semi finals.
I honestly think id rather enjoy the 40 odd games between WC's and loose that watch that every game...id lose interest in rugby before the next "success"
Fair enough. I don't know why I even waded in, I didn't even watch the game.
Obviously I must still a bit tender about AB's building themselves based on passive, reactive strategies.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rapido said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Must be boring at SA trainings for guys in jersies 11-15
Is that better or worse than AB forwards being humiliated in actual matches? Like WC semi finals.
I honestly think id rather enjoy the 40 odd games between WC's and loose that watch that every game...id lose interest in rugby before the next "success"
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@jr_ said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
How would you prove it anyway? That's impossible.
Of course we know faking injuries feeds into the Bok game plan of slowing the game down. In fact, faking an injury give them a LONGER breather than simply walking to a lineout.
What would be interesting is for someone to count how many times the Boks go down in games but the "injured" player then continues playing vs how many times this happens for other teams. Perhaps this was just a one-off, but I doubt it.Exactly, it is impossible to prove. But the fact that it "feeds into our plan" doesn't make it so either. I just think this general line is being overcooked a bit. It started with the Lions tour (where the Bok boring rugby narrative also took hold) and now seems to be something for everyone to bitch about every week. Agree one would need some stats on it to get a real view....I also think the Boks are too negative on tempo and they need to up it. The slow walk everywhere and trudging to the line outs is just too defensive. Get some fucking spring in your step man!
The Boks probably can't stay with us in a speed game. So it is logical that they would try everything to slow and shorten the game. I blame the ref for letting them do it. He was shockingly bad
The ref was fine. Your pommie or Irish origins are shining thru there.
Think we watched different games.
he was not good in a lot of areas but he was not the reason for the games being enjoyable to watch
Massive contributor. Allowing the Boks to stop to 5 mins in every two.
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@booboo if they were genuine stoppages, you then have to look at the Boks conditioning.
But yeah the stoppages made an already hard to watch game even harder to watch.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@booboo if they were genuine stoppages, you then have to look at the Boks conditioning.
But yeah the stoppages made an already hard to watch game even harder to watch.
That was the biggest issue for me. The kicking tactics, although ultimately self defeating, didn't phase me. In a lot of ways they created excitement in the lottery of catching them. (Despite the point that they were kind of gutless in as much it says to me that they had no confidence to create anything so just kick and hope ... but still some interest in the result... if that makes sense.)
But the slowing of the game and the inability / unwillingness of the ref to speed it up was the biggest bore factor for me.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@booboo if they were genuine stoppages, you then have to look at the Boks conditioning.
But yeah the stoppages made an already hard to watch game even harder to watch.
That was the biggest issue for me. The kicking tactics, although ultimately self defeating, didn't phase me. In a lot of ways they created excitement in the lottery of catching them. (Despite the point that they were kind of gutless in as much it says to me that they had no confidence to create anything so just kick and hope ... but still some interest in the result... if that makes sense.)
But the slowing of the game and the inability / unwillingness of the ref to speed it up was the biggest bore factor for me.
snap
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@jr_ said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
How would you prove it anyway? That's impossible.
Of course we know faking injuries feeds into the Bok game plan of slowing the game down. In fact, faking an injury give them a LONGER breather than simply walking to a lineout.
What would be interesting is for someone to count how many times the Boks go down in games but the "injured" player then continues playing vs how many times this happens for other teams. Perhaps this was just a one-off, but I doubt it.Exactly, it is impossible to prove. But the fact that it "feeds into our plan" doesn't make it so either. I just think this general line is being overcooked a bit. It started with the Lions tour (where the Bok boring rugby narrative also took hold) and now seems to be something for everyone to bitch about every week. Agree one would need some stats on it to get a real view....I also think the Boks are too negative on tempo and they need to up it. The slow walk everywhere and trudging to the line outs is just too defensive. Get some fucking spring in your step man!
The Boks probably can't stay with us in a speed game. So it is logical that they would try everything to slow and shorten the game. I blame the ref for letting them do it. He was shockingly bad
The ref was fine. Your pommie or Irish origins are shining thru there.
Think we watched different games.
I disagree the ref was 'fine'. I thought, in fact, he was good.
The two English refs have turned in a series of performances as consistent and high quality as we've seen down here for years. No team can feel the slightest bit aggrieved at the way things have transpired.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@jr_ said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
How would you prove it anyway? That's impossible.
Of course we know faking injuries feeds into the Bok game plan of slowing the game down. In fact, faking an injury give them a LONGER breather than simply walking to a lineout.
What would be interesting is for someone to count how many times the Boks go down in games but the "injured" player then continues playing vs how many times this happens for other teams. Perhaps this was just a one-off, but I doubt it.Exactly, it is impossible to prove. But the fact that it "feeds into our plan" doesn't make it so either. I just think this general line is being overcooked a bit. It started with the Lions tour (where the Bok boring rugby narrative also took hold) and now seems to be something for everyone to bitch about every week. Agree one would need some stats on it to get a real view....I also think the Boks are too negative on tempo and they need to up it. The slow walk everywhere and trudging to the line outs is just too defensive. Get some fucking spring in your step man!
The Boks probably can't stay with us in a speed game. So it is logical that they would try everything to slow and shorten the game. I blame the ref for letting them do it. He was shockingly bad
The ref was fine. Your pommie or Irish origins are shining thru there.
Think we watched different games.
I disagree the ref was 'fine'. I thought, in fact, he was good.
The two English refs have turned in a series of performances as consistent and high quality as we've seen down here for years. No team can feel the slightest bit aggrieved at the way things have transpired.
Really? I agree that they have been calm and accurate but have brought a style and interpretation that is not helpful.
He was more that happy to allow a slow set piece to set piece game (as per the common NH style but the game shouldn't be about his style. It should be about fairness in allowing teams to play within the laws. He actively slowed the game down and even said so when questioned. He either wasn't fit enough or didn't want to have to go out of his comfort zone of playing style.
There was that analysis that the EP breakdown interpretation helped Australia big time over the Bok tactics but we saw none of that so where was the consistency that teams can plan for? Either he pocketed the interpretation or had a poor game by his own standards. Players were bridging, sealing off, rolling slowly....
Refs need to be consistent between games as well as within them. Much gameplan setting is done on ref analysis these days.
As example we, based on the interpretations used in the SA/Oz games, didn't send the numbers into the tackle area as much.Saying he was consistent and high quality is a stretch.
As I keep harping on about, I don't mind so much that the Boks were allowed to play the way they did. But that also means that the contrasting style needs to be allowed as well. If not, one side is favoured so not good reffing.
Also the players advancing ahead of the kicker was a big blot on his copybook. That wasn't high quality at all.
I think we may see a change in style this week after feedback to the refs.
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Joe Moody telling it like it is, good man
Senior All Blacks prop Joe Moody reiterated calls to reduce constant time wasting.
"On the weekend it did get very frustrating. It felt like I was hardly getting a sweat on," Moody said. "It was just about every stoppage someone was going down and having a smoko. It'd be nice if something could be sorted with that side of things by the officiating this weekend.""
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We can agree to disagree. If one side wants to play slow rugby and is willing to have continuous injury stoppages, there's not much the ref can really do about it. Questioning his fitness is a little bit silly IMO.
A good way to speed up the game is to avoid stoppages and set pieces. Unfortunately for the ABs they decided to drop the ball a thousand times, which isn't the smartest tactic if you want to play fast.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
We can agree to disagree. If one side wants to play slow rugby and is willing to have continuous injury stoppages, there's not much the ref can really do about it. Questioning his fitness is a little bit silly IMO.
A good way to speed up the game is to avoid stoppages and set pieces. Unfortunately for the ABs they decided to drop the ball a thousand times, which isn't the smartest tactic if you want to play fast.
I agree with most of that, but not the injury part. Play on, like it is in game. We don’t stop for someone going down when balls in play - stoppage should be the same. The ref called them to get a move on several times, but never enforced it. He can, like a slow put in to the scrum, turn things over with a free kick then penalty next time.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
We can agree to disagree. If one side wants to play slow rugby and is willing to have continuous injury stoppages, there's not much the ref can really do about it. Questioning his fitness is a little bit silly IMO.
A good way to speed up the game is to avoid stoppages and set pieces. Unfortunately for the ABs they decided to drop the ball a thousand times, which isn't the smartest tactic if you want to play fast.
Don't disagree with that at all. We didn't help ourselves.
You may have misunderstood the 'fitness' comment though, it was deliberately silly. The ref used a style that favoured one side. His reasons could only be that he didn't want to (or couldn't) adjust that style to a team that wanted to take taps etc when they had earned the right OR that he was unfit. As he obviously shouldn't be unfit then the former is the answer and not high quality reffing. On a number of occasions he either walked slowly to make the mark or even walked away from it when we obviously wanted to go quickly.
