Openside flankers
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We had some pretty good on-ball talent running around the last couple of decades. Unfortunately some of them were at the same time...
David Wilson (79 caps)
David Croft (5 Test caps)
Phil Waugh (79 caps)
George Smith (111 caps)
David Pocock (78 caps)
Liam Gill (15 caps)
And at the same time as Gill we have Hooper (112*), now McReight (1) and Liam Wright (5) at the Reds, Hardwick (2?) at the Rebels, Koteka at the Force.As @mariner4life says above: it is a bit of a glamour position but the speed of our game in the antipodes demands you get someone capable of disrupting ruck ball.
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How many left now?
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@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
@toddy said in Openside flankers:
Vanisi
21
Good get there bro
That's all 30 then?
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Update
1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 -
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 -
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 -
30 - Mike Brewer -
Hobbs
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@act-crusader Is there a 27? IIRC 1986 was Brooke-Cowden and Hobbs before Jones made his debut in 1987.
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Mick Gold Coast QLDwrote on 14 Sept 2021, 11:28 last edited by Mick Gold Coast QLD 14 Sept 2021, 11:29
This has been a good read, I enjoyed it.
I have long believed the unluckiest players alive are the fellas who emerged between Michael Jones¹ and Sir Richie! I watched both Marty Holah and Josh Kronfeld around about that time and they were seriously good. There was also Zinzan, who was exceptional - an exciting runner, and Taine Randell. I liked his play (best as a No 8 ) but he was way too young when Hart made him captain and I say that mucked up a potentially fine career.
The stars aligned to ensure these contenders would enjoy short careers!
¹ Jones - the finest rugby player I have seen I reckon, and an outstanding man with it.
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@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
Update
1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 -
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 -
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 -
30 - Mike BrewerFuck, that list has some really fucking good players who we might hardly even remember to mention as ABs.
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@bovidae said in Openside flankers:
@act-crusader Is there a 27? IIRC 1986 was Brooke-Cowden and Hobbs before Jones made his debut in 1987.
27 only started one test at 7 but I believe also played a couple of non-tests at 7
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Its not someone in one of those gaps like that NZ sevens player Dallas Seymour is it?
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@bayimports said in Openside flankers:
Its not someone in one of those gaps like that NZ sevens player Dallas Seymour is it?
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ha ha I wonder if the last one was a loose forward not normally a number 7, im stumped now..used my last obscure reference above
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Andy Earl
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@bayimports said in Openside flankers:
ha ha I wonder if the last one was a loose forward not normally a number 7, im stumped now..used my last obscure reference above
To add to the earlier clue, he played 20 tests.
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@mariner4life said in Openside flankers:
@chris-b said in Openside flankers:
Thinking about the depth we've presently got at openside flanker makes me wonder quite why it is that we've almost always had gun opensides?
I'm not sure quite when we shifted from using left and right flankers to using blind and open sides - it was after Waka Nathan and Kel Tremain, but even that pair were starting to be pretty complementary and by all accounts Nathan was a gun as a prototypical openside.
First really genuine openside might have been Ken Stewart? And since then we've had a nearly unbroken chain of Kevin Eveleigh, Graham Mourie, Jock Hobbs, Michael Jones, Josh Kronfeld, Richie McCaw and Sam Cane.
A few little lulls along the way, but also periods where we've had several excellent options - Frank Shelford, Ginge Henderson, Marty Holah and now Ardie Savea and Dalton Papali'i.
I don't think we've got another position where we've been so strong, so consistently.
yeah, it's NZ rugby's signature position. There has been an embarrassment of riches at times
Look at who was running around in say 2005 and couldn't get near a test gig.
It's a glamour spot in NZ, so athletes want to play there. And our national style compliments the position beautifully for creating hard bastards who are not only good on the ground, but hard defenders and good link players.
Yes 7 and probably now 11 are two spots where you would pick a NZer 9 times out of 10 over any other nationality.
It's a good idea for a thread (and one I've thought about starting) - World XV for nationalities. Safe to say you'd probably pick a couple of Saffers to play lock!
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@frye said in Openside flankers:
Andy Earl
Not Earl.
The likes of Henderson, Jones, Seymour, Brooke-Crowden, Hobbs started at openside during his career
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Jamie Joseph
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1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 - Dallas Seymour
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 - Jamie Joseph
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 - Jock Hobbs
30 - Mike Brewer -
@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 - Dallas Seymour
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 - Jamie Joseph
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 - Jock Hobbs
30 - Mike BrewerPretty sure Mark Carter and Kup Vanisi need to be swapped in that list
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@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
@bovidae said in Openside flankers:
Jamie Joseph
Bingo
After checking it was in THAT game in 1993. Farkin' Mains!
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@junior said in Openside flankers:
Pretty sure Mark Carter and Kup Vanisi need to be swapped in that list
Yeah a couple of them are mixed up with last test and first selected.
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Given M4L's comment about 7 being our signature position - which I think nails it - it's quite surprising the number of guys who weren't really 7s who played tests there. Maybe guys like Zinzan started out as 7s - I can't remember now.
From that list - Blackadder, Thomson, Masoe to an extent, Rodney, Razor, Blowers, Taine, Barry, Zinny, Schuler (I think?), Joseph, Brewer.
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Craig Newby?
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@tim said in Openside flankers:
Craig Newby?
He was mentioned earlier in the thread. Don't know how he got left off that list
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@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
@frye said in Openside flankers:
Geez 30 is a lot!
Harding
Henderson
Newby?
So'oialo
Masoe12, 23, 10, 9
@canefan said in Openside flankers:
@tim said in Openside flankers:
Craig Newby?
He was mentioned earlier in the thread. Don't know how he got left off that list
@ACT-Crusader even crossed him off
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@canefan said in Openside flankers:
@tim said in Openside flankers:
Craig Newby?
He was mentioned earlier in the thread. Don't know how he got left off that list
He never started a test/game so never wore no.7. 3 games as a sub.
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LIke that quizz, nice work. Some really good players in there.
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@junior said in Openside flankers:
Sam Harding
Apart from Monkley, who would be the unluckiest to not even get capped (i.e., excluding Newby and I assume others who only came off the bench)?
Blackie must go close (I actually thought he had, but when he didn't show up on this list I checked).
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ok, drawing on the brains trust, who else was out there in 2002-2003..seems really weird the highlanders had 3 of the best opensides in the country
obviously mccaw and holah
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@bovidae said in Openside flankers:
@gt12 In the professional era the Cantabs will probably say Angus Gardiner.
Gus Collins would be the best of the uncapped in that time
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@kiwiwomble said in Openside flankers:
ok, drawing on the brains trust, who else was out there in 2002-2003..seems really weird the highlanders had 3 of the best opensides in the country
obviously mccaw and holah
you don't need to narrow it down to Super sides
I reckon we could find a year where damn near every first division NPC union had a gun at 7.
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@mariner4life without doubt, was more just three of them being at the highlanders so i was trying to think who was stoping one of them starting for the blues or canes for example
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@kiwiwomble said in Openside flankers:
@mariner4life without doubt, was more just three of them being at the highlanders so i was trying to think who was stoping one of them starting for the blues or canes for example
Names like Braid. Collins. Vinisi. Waldrom?
Years are starting to blur together, but there were a lot of guys gunning for not many jerseys.
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