Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
-
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
-
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
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@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
I think there are serious problems in NZ Rugby. It's around player development, succession planning for key positions, retaining good coaching expertise and ensuring continuity in AB management without developing staleness (which we've seen since 2016/7).
Yes, we almost won in Dublin but when under pressure, experienced players screwed up as we've seen in too many games since 2017, or arguably 2016, by making stupid errors and losing discipline. That's hardly all down to Foster - though there are some who suggest he's personally responsible for all the AB ills since he joined the cartel, as though he's some evil genius.
I worry that just simply changing the coach will only paper over the cracks for a short period. Sure, you'll get an improvement straight away due to the change (Hawthorn effect) but there's no guarantee that will last at Test level.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
I think there are serious problems in NZ Rugby. It's around player development, succession planning for key positions, retaining good coaching expertise and ensuring continuity in AB management without developing staleness (which we've seen since 2016/7).
Yes, we almost won in Dublin but when under pressure, experienced players screwed up as we've seen in too many games since 2017, or arguably 2016, by making stupid errors and losing discipline. That's hardly all down to Foster - though there are some who suggest he's personally responsible for all the AB ills since he joined the cartel, as though he's some evil genius.
I worry that just simply changing the coach will only paper over the cracks for a short period. Sure, you'll get an improvement straight away due to the change (Hawthorn effect) but there's no guarantee that will last at Test level.
You are blinded by your Love for Foster,
How do we know if we don’t change , All we know it what we have now which is poor.
By your reckoning Foster should have the job forever no matter what his record of success is,because you are scared of change.
In case in doesn’t work. -
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
I think there are serious problems in NZ Rugby. It's around player development, succession planning for key positions, retaining good coaching expertise and ensuring continuity in AB management without developing staleness (which we've seen since 2016/7).
Yes, we almost won in Dublin but when under pressure, experienced players screwed up as we've seen in too many games since 2017, or arguably 2016, by making stupid errors and losing discipline. That's hardly all down to Foster - though there are some who suggest he's personally responsible for all the AB ills since he joined the cartel, as though he's some evil genius.
I worry that just simply changing the coach will only paper over the cracks for a short period. Sure, you'll get an improvement straight away due to the change (Hawthorn effect) but there's no guarantee that will last at Test level.
You are blinded by your Love for Foster,
How do we know if we don’t change , All we know it what we have now which is poor.
By your reckoning Foster should have the job forever no matter what his record of success is,because you are scared of change.
In case in doesn’t work.Wow. Reading/comprehension now as bad as writing/punctuation.
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@kruse said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
I think there are serious problems in NZ Rugby. It's around player development, succession planning for key positions, retaining good coaching expertise and ensuring continuity in AB management without developing staleness (which we've seen since 2016/7).
Yes, we almost won in Dublin but when under pressure, experienced players screwed up as we've seen in too many games since 2017, or arguably 2016, by making stupid errors and losing discipline. That's hardly all down to Foster - though there are some who suggest he's personally responsible for all the AB ills since he joined the cartel, as though he's some evil genius.
I worry that just simply changing the coach will only paper over the cracks for a short period. Sure, you'll get an improvement straight away due to the change (Hawthorn effect) but there's no guarantee that will last at Test level.
You are blinded by your Love for Foster,
How do we know if we don’t change , All we know it what we have now which is poor.
By your reckoning Foster should have the job forever no matter what his record of success is,because you are scared of change.
In case in doesn’t work.Wow. Reading/comprehension now as bad as writing/punctuation.
Cheers appreciate it.
-
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
Normally I don't rise to this sort of comment, but...
You are blinded by your Love for Foster,
Where have I said I love - or even admire Foster?
How do we know if we don’t change ,
A simply ridiculous point. It's like arguing Robertson should be sacked as Crusaders coach as another coach might win by bigger margins and, until we sack Robertson, we won't know.
All we know it what we have now which is poor.
Your one sensible and obvious comment. To which I refer you to the entirety of my post where I took the time to think and set out what I thought the problems were.
By your reckoning Foster should have the job forever no matter what his record of success is,because you are scared of change.
In case in doesn’t work.Having spent a moderately successful career helping organisations adapt and change to improve the quality of their output, the idea that I'm scared of change is really fucking silly. But I've seen too many cases where change without considering the root causes of the problem, not only didn't work, it made things worse.
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What a great season it has been for learnings!
I learnt we should keep our best players off the pitch when they play well (Samisoni, and pulling players once they found their rhythm)
Badly executed kicking is fantastic as then the opposition aren't ready when we actually kick well
Best to let the other team score first so we have an interesting second half to stay motivated
AB captaincy should be given to the quietest guy on the field
If combos aren't working, rotate everybody as that gives them that element of surprise at training
Best to have two sevens on pitch as much as possible (as Australia showed how well that worked)
Don't contest the lineouts as that is just impolite
Likewise don't empty the bench when losing as you want the tired players on the field to keep enjoying that losing experience
Pick TJP as much as possible because that slower pass allows the 10 and 12 to enjoy the view and his coffee stops at the back of the ruck allow the hosts to catch their breath-very thoughtful
Leave basic skills training to quarantine time in their hotels
And remember to always pick George Bridge as he has that mysterious combination of pace and power (Bridge Frizell Havili and Bower clearly way ahead of all the others left behind in NZ).
Bonus points if you can find a player out of confidence and play them out of positionOh and it is crabbing season! Take your smallest guys and ask them to tiptoe delicately around the midfield. Extra points if they run backwards.
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[link text](link https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300459393/all-blacks-coach-ian-foster-insists-were-making-progress-despite-threedefeat-yearurl)
Clueless this coach.
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
I think there are serious problems in NZ Rugby. It's around player development, succession planning for key positions, retaining good coaching expertise and ensuring continuity in AB management without developing staleness (which we've seen since 2016/7).
Yes, we almost won in Dublin but when under pressure, experienced players screwed up as we've seen in too many games since 2017, or arguably 2016, by making stupid errors and losing discipline. That's hardly all down to Foster - though there are some who suggest he's personally responsible for all the AB ills since he joined the cartel, as though he's some evil genius.
I worry that just simply changing the coach will only paper over the cracks for a short period. Sure, you'll get an improvement straight away due to the change (Hawthorn effect) but there's no guarantee that will last at Test level.
You are blinded by your Love for Foster,
How do we know if we don’t change , All we know it what we have now which is poor.
By your reckoning Foster should have the job forever no matter what his record of success is,because you are scared of change.
In case in doesn’t work.That's a ridiculous comment to make, as Machpants said if you look at our rugby being played even at super level, the skill level of our players in general has seemingly dropped in last few years. We have won many tests just by using sublime skills etc over the years, and we don't seem to have quite that about our players at moment. And that not saying Foster should be coach etc, just need to look at how our teams have played below test level, remember a few years back when almost any NZ team could launch an attack down the blindside with only 5 mtere to work with and still beat defence with a pass?
Also we have to look , we all cutting our wrists with how bad things are, tell me a test team in Tier 1 who has had less losses than ABs this year. Hell Wallabies just finished autumn series without a win for 43 years!!!Boks have dropped 5 teats this year, France 5 etc etc.
I not saying we don't have problems but I still think there no quick fix, and not sure they bad as we think! -
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All you Foster fans enjoy that BS more to come
Just because people don't think Jesus Robertson is the answer to everything, doesn't mean they're Foster fans. Get a fucking grip.
I don’t give a flying Fuck who get the job just not this lot of clowns,
So get a fucking grip .🤣 Ok but Robertson good
Mickey Mouse would be better than the clown circus.
Just Change the coaches anybody has to be better.Now we're talking. Opposing Robertson doesn't equal Foster fans. Having patience doesn't equal Foster fans.
I just want the ABs to win to be honest ,just get some coaches in who can turn this around,
I can’t handle 2 more years of this shit.Does the NZRFU have any say on selection of assistant coaches or is it totally in head coaches control. If Foster is def locked in then can we at least try and get some new blood in the assistant coaching roles
-
Chris Rattue: All Blacks review of Foster appointment now needed
Opinion: Foster may turn things around, but decision to appoint him was clearly wrong.
Can someone give me their credit card details ? I can’t seem to read this article but I bet it’s awesome.
-
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All you Foster fans enjoy that BS more to come
Just because people don't think Jesus Robertson is the answer to everything, doesn't mean they're Foster fans. Get a fucking grip.
I don’t give a flying Fuck who get the job just not this lot of clowns,
So get a fucking grip .🤣 Ok but Robertson good
Mickey Mouse would be better than the clown circus.
Just Change the coaches anybody has to be better.Now we're talking. Opposing Robertson doesn't equal Foster fans. Having patience doesn't equal Foster fans.
I just want the ABs to win to be honest ,just get some coaches in who can turn this around,
I can’t handle 2 more years of this shit.Does the NZRFU have any say on selection of assistant coaches or is it totally in head coaches control. If Foster is def locked in then can we at least try and get some new blood in the assistant coaching roles
I am not sure,But I think its the Head Coach as he has to work with them.
-
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All you Foster fans enjoy that BS more to come
Just because people don't think Jesus Robertson is the answer to everything, doesn't mean they're Foster fans. Get a fucking grip.
I don’t give a flying Fuck who get the job just not this lot of clowns,
So get a fucking grip .🤣 Ok but Robertson good
Mickey Mouse would be better than the clown circus.
Just Change the coaches anybody has to be better.Now we're talking. Opposing Robertson doesn't equal Foster fans. Having patience doesn't equal Foster fans.
I just want the ABs to win to be honest ,just get some coaches in who can turn this around,
I can’t handle 2 more years of this shit.Does the NZRFU have any say on selection of assistant coaches or is it totally in head coaches control. If Foster is def locked in then can we at least try and get some new blood in the assistant coaching roles
I am not sure,But I think its the Head Coach as he has to work with them.
And I think that's the way it should be.
-
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All you Foster fans enjoy that BS more to come
Just because people don't think Jesus Robertson is the answer to everything, doesn't mean they're Foster fans. Get a fucking grip.
I don’t give a flying Fuck who get the job just not this lot of clowns,
So get a fucking grip .🤣 Ok but Robertson good
Mickey Mouse would be better than the clown circus.
Just Change the coaches anybody has to be better.Now we're talking. Opposing Robertson doesn't equal Foster fans. Having patience doesn't equal Foster fans.
I just want the ABs to win to be honest ,just get some coaches in who can turn this around,
I can’t handle 2 more years of this shit.Does the NZRFU have any say on selection of assistant coaches or is it totally in head coaches control. If Foster is def locked in then can we at least try and get some new blood in the assistant coaching roles
I am not sure,But I think its the Head Coach as he has to work with them.
NZR has also started work on contracting the rest of Foster’s coaching staff and management team.https://www.allblacks.com/news/ian-foster-reappointed-as-all-blacks-head-coach/
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Ian Foster has signed a two-year contract extension as All Blacks head coach through to the 2023 World Cup, the Herald can reveal. After much conjecture, the Herald understands New Zealand Rugby has moved to give Foster and his management team security as they prepare to lead the All Blacks for 14 weeks away from home. Foster's assistants John Plumtree, Brad Mooar, Scott McLeod and Greg Feek are expected to re-sign alongside Foster in the coming weeks. -
In my opinion some coaches are’nt destined to be successful but there are times several red flags that will stand out to wether things will go south .
1.Individual coaching record , i think we can all agree that was a concern from the time he was appointed to the assistant role to Hansen and part of that process segways nicely into my 2nd issue2.Because Foster was part of the previous regime , what part of a previously failed game plan would he bring to this current All Black team that would be so different than his predecessor ..?
The same voice is always an issue in my book , you would have to have a special mind to stimulate the same players , previously we had also seen errors in terms of individuals being played out of position ..and even more alarmingly anybody who knew a bit about Rugby could see the All Blacks were being pressured at breakdown which lead to ill discipline which meant the opposition have know worked out , hey if we hold the ball and create our own pressure it will be the All Blacks that fold .- Another area i always look to see what good coaches are up to is in and around development , who has Foster developed into a world class player …?.
Papalii and Blackadder come to mind , but they have really only got their opportunties because of injury .
Do us all a favour Foster and admit , you aint got the midas touch and move on
- Another area i always look to see what good coaches are up to is in and around development , who has Foster developed into a world class player …?.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Ian Foster has signed a two-year contract extension as All Blacks head coach through to the 2023 World Cup, the Herald can reveal. After much conjecture, the Herald understands New Zealand Rugby has moved to give Foster and his management team security as they prepare to lead the All Blacks for 14 weeks away from home. Foster's assistants John Plumtree, Brad Mooar, Scott McLeod and Greg Feek are expected to re-sign alongside Foster in the coming weeks.If his assistants are yet to sign or be offered deals, the NZRFU should not be extending those now
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@mn5 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Chris Rattue: All Blacks review of Foster appointment now needed
Opinion: Foster may turn things around, but decision to appoint him was clearly wrong.
Can someone give me their credit card details ? I can’t seem to read this article but I bet it’s awesome.
Rather than see the All Blacks' 2019 World Cup crash for what it was, that of a coaching regime which had lost its way, NZR turned inwards as it always has done, ignoring any popular wish and sticking with its mates.
It was almost as if they felt so superior that the incredible semifinal mauling at the hands of England didn't actually happen, that to break with the Steve Hansen regime would be an unfair insult to the great but overbearing coach.
That's how Ian Foster - Hansen's assistant - became head All Blacks coach.
That poor decision was the product of a sport which ignores its audience and appears out of touch with the people and the trends of the game. It is an empire which has gone soft.
And it is coming back to haunt them big time. Tactics and motivation are being exposed. Foster is being completely out-coached, and his team out-muscled.
NZR has been well and truly embarrassed on the world stage by the Foster appointment. He is making a mess of it. And it is hardly a surprise.
It was a very long time since Ian Foster had been a head coach, and he wasn't all that successful way back then.
Those who had done the tough head coach yards in the current era - particularly the people's favourite Scott Robertson, Dave Rennie and Jamie Joseph - were left on the sidelines.
All deserved the job over Foster, and all would be doing a better job than him. I have absolutely no doubt about that.
