Super Rugby 2022
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@nzzp said in Blues 2022:
@kirwan said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp and surely a red card for a reckless challenge is punishment enough.
you cannot bring rationality to the judici-lotto
It's a strange one though and I'm sure that the lawyers will be onto it. WRs 'Head Contact Process' specifically states...
*The process can be applied to:
High tackles
Shoulder charges
Dangerous cleanouts
Head-to-head collisions
Leading elbow / forearm*So this is none of those. The Process also has an aside that -
The Head Contact Process is a Law Application Guideline. Under 9.11, the referee is always entitled to issue a red or yellow card for anything deemed to be reckless or dangerous. However, this process is intended to aid consistency in the application of sanctions by providing guidance on how contact with the head should be approached by match officials and disciplinary personnel.
LAW 9: Foul play
- Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others including leading with the elbow or forearm.
So for consistency the refs decided that the contact meets 9.11 and that if the same sanction application as tackles is applied "for consistency" then it meets a RC.
For me the argument is whether the act of jumping to block a kick met a high level of danger or was a highly reckless act.
Defence will argue that it was a normal act of the game that ended up badly (accident). Jumping into the path of a running player holds more danger for the jumper and it was simply bad luck that direct contact was made to the head. Anythng other than direct contact would have been a YC . To me there needs to be a high probability of direct contact to the head for it to be reckless.But it's the judiciary.
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Check this out (excluding Sunday's match) there have been 5 red cards & 5 yellow cards seen across the last 5 Super Rugby fixtures. A red card in the last 5 consecutive matches:
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Filipo Daugunu earns his 50th cap and a visit from his Aunty whom he hasn’t seen since 2019.
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@daffy-jaffy said in Super Rugby 2022:
Filipo Daugunu earns his 50th cap and a visit from his Aunty whom he hasn’t seen since 2019.
No tears until his Aunty arrived.
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Super Rugby Pacific: Caleb Clarke to face SANZAAR judiciary after red card against Moana Pasifika | Newshub
The 23-year-old is hoping to avoid a long-term suspension after his red card on Saturday.
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@duluth I'd he gets off then I shudder to think what the future holds. Players will be able to early launch with arms in the air and knees out front claiming intention to charge down when really they are trying to physically block the kicker from chasing their kick and putting players onside. The lawmakers need to think carefully here regardless of how innocent and athletically marvellous Leon thinks it was. A kicker would need to be very brave to kick and chase if this type of challenge is legitimised.
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@arhs said in Blues 2022:
@duluth I'd he gets off then I shudder to think what the future holds. Players will be able to early launch with arms in the air and knees out front claiming intention to charge down when really they are trying to physically block the kicker from chasing their kick and putting players onside. The lawmakers need to think carefully here regardless of how innocent and athletically marvellous Leon thinks it was. A kicker would need to be very brave to kick and chase if this type of challenge is legitimised.
It's slightly more difficult in a defensive situation where the attacking player is coming straight at you, but ultimately you need to ensure you do the following:
- Manage to impact the ball's path by physically touching the ball.
- Don't hit the attacking player if you miss the ball. In the same way we don't permit charge downs to target the kicker, instead targeting the path of the ball from an angle.
Otherwise you're no longer in control of your destiny.
And from an enforcement perspective we also need to keep in mind how rare these events are.
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@nzzp Nepo is lucky that they consider "no red card in the last 12 months" as a clean sheet; he's come off very lightly. Shilo Klein has been suspended for 3 weeks as well, despite having just over 12 and half hours of first class rugby under his belt and no previous incidents.
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@nzzp yes. I am challenging the posters saying that a red card should be the end of it. Leon said his crew would be searching the world for evidence of similar to exonerate Caleb. I am just saying that this approach makes it hard for the judiciary and any consequences of the ruling.
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@arhs said in Blues 2022:
@duluth I'd he gets off then I shudder to think what the future holds. Players will be able to early launch with arms in the air and knees out front claiming intention to charge down when really they are trying to physically block the kicker from chasing their kick and putting players onside. The lawmakers need to think carefully here regardless of how innocent and athletically marvellous Leon thinks it was. A kicker would need to be very brave to kick and chase if this type of challenge is legitimised.
High kick. Chaser jumps for the ball as the expectation is to do so to compete for possession and not interfere with the defender who is likely to be in the air.
Defender doesn't jump but chaser collects him with knee to head.How do you rule it? Was chaser meant to wait for a strong indication that defender was going to jump? Defender is fully entitled to claim the space under the kick.
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@arhs said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp yes. I am challenging the posters saying that a red card should be the end of it. Leon said his crew would be searching the world for evidence of similar to exonerate Caleb. I am just saying that this approach makes it hard for the judiciary and any consequences of the ruling.
I pointed out the laws earlier and the situation isn't covered in the guidelines or accompanying examples. Of course coaches are going to ask for clarity and for the judiciary to make 'case law'
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@crucial and what happens if the chaser saw him go up, ducks slightly, collects his feet, knocking man in the air off balance, he then lands awkwardly?
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@taniwharugby said in Blues 2022:
@crucial and what happens if the chaser saw him go up, ducks slightly, collects his feet, knocking man in the air off balance, he then lands awkwardly?
You mean defender and a double red?
I think that would be mitigating circumstances if someone ducked into a head collision.
I guess I'm just wondering what defines reckless when the act itself is a normal part of the game.
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@crucial I mean in the same situation with Caleb, but the guy that was chasing, if he sees what is happening, ducks to avoid the knee (that he ended up hitting) and in doing so all but runs under Caleb, causing him to rotate and land awkwardly, does Caleb avoid a card and then MP winger gets one?
I just think rugby has got itself in a precarious position when ruling on such incidents.
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@crucial said in Blues 2022:
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2022:
@crucial and what happens if the chaser saw him go up, ducks slightly, collects his feet, knocking man in the air off balance, he then lands awkwardly?
You mean defender and a double red?
I think that would be mitigating circumstances if someone ducked into a head collision.
I guess I'm just wondering what defines reckless when the act itself is a normal part of the game.
For me, the reckless comes into jumping into an area you have no right to be in. So, being really early or late on a kick contest, or jumping for a chargedown where you may collide with the kicker. legitimate contests are OK in the laws - and by and large we see that reffed.
The question then is the punishment, which is where @ARHS is disputing. For me, Clarke's offence was way less bad than Laulala's, and should be recognised as such at the judiciary. However, others obviously hold a different view.
Let's not even start on the defender staying on the ground and what happens when someone jumps into them! That case does not appear to be consistently refereed (or clear in teh rules). Or teams putting up early jumpers to put off the contest, and flooding the groudn area to pick up the rebound. It's smart rugby, and we don't see the AB doing it.
List of 2022 Super Rugby Pacific matches - Wikipedia
Filipo Daugunu 50th Cap
