Article: The Original Rugby Championship - Six Nations 2016

Derm McCrum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="566354" data-time="1458552282">
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His behavior the whole game was a disgrace. Gloating to Scottish players and bitching to the referee, Even going on with it after the whistle when the players are shaking hands., very very poor from him.
 
Whether he was hurt or not it can't have been that bad if he can sit up and seagull to the ref about it before clutching his head and waiting for the physios. The guy is fast becoming Mike Brown level of knob head. Add to that he had a very average game anyway and has not exactly set the world on fire this 6 nations. And yes its a straight yellow for a very dumb throw. But he would have gotten that regardless of grabbing his head or getting up and dusting up the Dunbar, he choose the real bitch option. 
 
He may be the best out half in Ireland but he is currently failing the no dickheads rule. A bit of humility goes a long way in this sport. 
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I don't agree with any of that. 
 
Except for your last sentence.

Siam

Is he not liked in general?
 
I only say this because players and explayers seemed to jump into him in the media pretty quick
 
He does sort of give off an air of wierdness or surliness if such a thing is possible

Catogrande

Whining and bitching to the ref has been on the increase for some time. It's not just Sexton by any means. Stuart Hogg got an earful from Nigel Owens during the World Cup which was a delight to behold. It's a shame more refs aren't as forthright.
 
Anyway, not much for me to be bitchy about after England finally got over the line. Funny though I'm feeling a little deflated by it all. Really strange to have won the GS and not to be ecstatic. Maybe it was that I didn't get to watch any of the games down the pub with my mates, maybe it was that the tournament as a whole was not particularly vintage or maybe it was sheer frustration at England letting the pressure escape time after time with stupid indiscipline and realising that with that level of penalty giving we were often luck to escape with a win. It's just that I feel we could have been quite a bit better, quite easily.

Derm McCrum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="566379" data-time="1458564287">
Whining and bitching to the ref has been on the increase for some time. It's not just Sexton by any means. Stuart Hogg got an earful from Nigel Owens during the World Cup which was a delight to behold. It's a shame more refs aren't as forthright. 
Anyway, not much for me to be bitchy about after England finally got over the line. Funny though I'm feeling a little deflated by it all. Really strange to have won the GS and not to be ecstatic. Maybe it was that I didn't get to watch any of the games down the pub with my mates, maybe it was that the tournament as a whole was not particularly vintage or maybe it was sheer frustration at England letting the pressure escape time after time with stupid indiscipline and realising that with that level of penalty giving we were often luck to escape with a win. It's just that I feel we could have been quite a bit better, quite easily.</blockquote>
 
Yep - definitely not a vintage year. England well deserved it though. Yes they had some nervy moments and could/should have been ahead a bit more in some of the matches. But they are still a young team and I think they will improve with time

Catogrande

I'm quietly confident that (young side, improving) is the case PH but this indiscipline has been blighting our chances for some time now and I'm beginning to fear it is ingrained in some of the current crop.

Derm McCrum

Yep. 
This year's June internationals could be interesting. 
I'd have a quiet punt on England, Ireland and Wales winning one test in their series. England maybe more.

TeWaio

Surely not Wales!

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="566387" data-time="1458577641">
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Yep. 
This year's June internationals could be interesting. 
I'd have a quiet punt on England, Ireland and Wales winning one test in their series. England maybe more.
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I like your optimism. And I try to be objective. But I genuinely did not see anything on display from Wales that made me think they'll win their first against NZ since 1953...in NZ.
 
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see England take a test off Aussie, and SA, certainly for the first test with a new coach, should be a winnable game for Ireland.

Cookie

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="566379" data-time="1458564287">Whining and bitching to the ref has been on the increase for some time. It's not just Sexton by any means. Stuart Hogg got an earful from Nigel Owens during the World Cup which was a delight to behold. It's a shame more refs aren't as forthright. 
 
Anyway, not much for me to be bitchy about after England finally got over the line. Funny though I'm feeling a little deflated by it all. Really strange to have won the GS and not to be ecstatic. Maybe it was that I didn't get to watch any of the games down the pub with my mates, maybe it was that the tournament as a whole was not particularly vintage or maybe it was sheer frustration at England letting the pressure escape time after time with stupid indiscipline and realising that with that level of penalty giving we were often luck to escape with a win. It's just that I feel we could have been quite a bit better, quite easily.</blockquote>
 
Yes it was a weird one. Felt more relief than joy. The way we kept allowing the French back in always left me with a nagging doubt about the temperament of the team. 
Having said that, before the start of the campaign a lot of us (me included) were backing Hartley to elbow/bite/butt/gouge at least one of the opposition so I am very pleased he managed to keep a lid on it. Some of the newer players have really stepped up and most importantly, Cowan-Dickie has lost his mullet, so all told there is much to be pleased about.

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cookie" data-cid="566392" data-time="1458582118">
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Yes it was a weird one. Felt more relief than joy. The way we kept allowing the French back in always left me with a nagging doubt about the temperament of the team. 
Having said that, before the start of the campaign a lot of us (me included) were backing Hartley to elbow/bite/butt/gouge at least one of the opposition so I am very pleased he managed to keep a lid on it. Some of the newer players have really stepped up and most importantly, Cowan-Dickie has lost his mullet, so all told there is much to be pleased about.
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My opinion on England is that it looks very promising.
 
I don't think your back row mix is correct, in particular I don't rate Haskell as a 7, and Robshaw is a bit meh. You also need to look at why you couldn't turn mountains of possession and territory into more points against the Celts.
 
But there is the makings of a very competitive team.

TeWaio

I think the best back 5 pack + bench for England is something like: 
4. Launchberry 
5. Kruis 
6. Itoje 
7. A proper 7, Kvesic? Armitage? 
8. Vunipola 
19. Lawes (what happened to Parling?) 
20. Robshaw/Haskell

Mofitzy

John Hardie made Jeremy Guscott's BBC team of the tournament at 7 and made it into Stephen Jones' Lions squad pick. Not bad for an injury plagued super rugby player.

Crucial

From the parts of games in the 6N that I watched it is still massively obvious that even in the moments the teams look to play at speed they simply don't have the same speed of thought that SH teams have. The spotting of opportunities and transition from defence to attack is much slower and good ball is often killed by good defence simply because of hesitation or waiting for players to put themselves in effective places. 
Unless players play at speed most of the time (eg Super Rugby) they will never get those instincts but one area that can be trained is upping the skillsets of forwards.
The beauty of Rugby is that teams don't all have to play the same way though and there is room for a NH team to trouble a SH team with tactics.

Derm McCrum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566424" data-time="1458599680">
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From the parts of games in the 6N that I watched it is still massively obvious that even in the moments the teams look to play at speed they simply don't have the same speed of thought that SH teams have. The spotting of opportunities and transition from defence to attack is much slower and good ball is often killed by good defence simply because of hesitation or waiting for players to put themselves in effective places. 
Unless players play at speed most of the time (eg Super Rugby) they will never get those instincts but one area that can be trained is upping the skillsets of forwards.
The beauty of Rugby is that teams don't all have to play the same way though and there is room for a NH team to trouble a SH team with tactics.
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Crucial, do you think your assertion regarding speed and Super Rugby is true of Argentinian players or South African players? I don't buy the notion that all SH teams play one way/one speed and NH teams play another.
 
A more relevant contrast that has been much commented on is the speed/type of game played in Round 1 vs Round 5 of the Six Nations - which is largely a contrast due to weather, conditions, pitch surface. There is a growing voice for the tournament to even shift by four weeks that would effect a change to conditions for matches, but inevitably that gets mixed up into the whole global game argument and gets mired.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="566445" data-time="1458611786">
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Crucial, do you think your assertion regarding speed and Super Rugby is true of Argentinian players or South African players? 
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Yes. Argentina have embraced playing at speed almost too much if you watch the Jaguares. They know they can't rely on a forward based game to get wins and it actually looks like they always had the talent, just didn't use it enough.
SA teams have changed a lot over the last few years and are no longer leaving their outsides to simply look for intercepts and field bombs. 
 
I agree that my post was a generalisation but that is kind of my point. Generally the 6N teams (and their players) do not play with the same speed and speed of thought as their TRC counterparts.

Catogrande

Jaguars? Pumas surely?

Catogrande

Not that it matters, we know who you meant.

TeWaio

Jaguares - the Argentine Super Rugby team

Catogrande

Well that will teach me for being a nit picking twat.

Derm McCrum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="566554" data-time="1458639255">
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Well that will teach me for being a nit picking twat.
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Well I don't think it's nit-picking. The Argentine test team do play at more speed, but not because they've been playing Super Rugby - the Jaguares only started this season. All of Argentina's players - up to this new season - played their club rugby in European clubs for the most part.
 
Crucial asserted that "Unless players play at speed most of the time (eg Super Rugby) they will never get those instincts". To date, Argentina have only got to develop their style through playing 4N matches, and June and November internationals.

The Silver Fern

Article: The Original Rugby Championship - Six Nations 2016