All Blacks v Tonga
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@nepia said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@rapido said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@rapido said in All Blacks v Tonga:
NZRU should actually let some Tongans play professional rugby in NZ and remain Tongan (and so should the Aussies). Reap what you sow. A loss making 'The massacre of the amateur brigade'.
We have nothing to do with clubs in the NH not releasing players, and circumstances meaning even if they did they would have to spend two weeks in quarantine.
3 uncapped born and bred Tongans in Super Rugby not playing. I wonder why. Let alone in NPC which is too hard to research.
Let alone NZ players with Tongan heritage (who are what plenty of these European based players are anyway)
The gaps left by European based players are being filled by NZ amateurs rather than NZ based professionals because NZRU and ARU central contracting blocks them. We are a funnel, we are not saints.
Presumably because they want to play for the All Blacks.
Also, why should a NZer of Tongan heritage be automatically be available for Tonga? I presume most of them want to try for the ABs.
Tokolahi? really? He's paying lip-service for employment reasons.
Taukei'aho? Yes, he will be an All Black.
Kata? He might play 1 year for Australia before buggering off like many of their Fijian wingers. He's still got a few years to go before qualifying. He is paying lip-service for employment reasons, but to his Australian employers.Re: this part:
why should a NZer of Tongan heritage be automatically be available for Tonga?
They shouldn't and they aren't. But plenty at NPC level (and a few at SR level) would IMO if it didn't hinder their employment chances. A few out of huge numbers would leave a team to pick from. Not club players.
We're not evil, but we are reaping what we sow here. We are a producer of talent and developer/polisher of talent (of the scholarships kids) - But we are not an an employer of non-NZ available talent. We have a only 5 poxy professional teams - for which those dual-qualified in those teams and those wanting to one day get in those teams delay their potential non-AB international careers.
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I did hear that Toutai Kefu asked a number of players based in NZ but some declined. He should be able to understand why, as he did exactly the same when choosing Aust over Tonga. Sekope Lopeti-Moli might have been one of those as his brother is starting at hooker.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Tonga:
They're clearly resting players given we're playing the Tonga Invitational Second XV.
I expect the majority, if not all of the players, will get a run over the first two games.
I'm interested to see how this loose forward trio combines.
Commenting on the make-up of the loose forward trio, Foster added: “Dalton gets a reward for a great campaign this year. In Akira’s case, he started at six last year and it’s a chance for him to put a marker down. Luke played very well for the Chiefs and he is back in great form.”
A whole 8 caps in the loosies
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@gunner said in All Blacks v Tonga:
How/why is BB available for selection but TJP isn’t?
Because the entire time BB was in Japan he was still on the NZR books. TJP’s contract eneded, he went to Japan, then signed again afterwards. BB a sabbatical, TJ wasn’t. So TJ must play in pro NZ comp first.
I wonder when the last time that the ABs fielded a loose trio with less than 10 caps, must be years!
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@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Tonga:
They're clearly resting players given we're playing the Tonga Invitational Second XV.
BBBR doesn't need a rest he needs a game.
An underwhelming team for an underwhelming game.
It's a fixture we have desperatly been missing over the last few years. A low stakes game to start blooding new players and weeding out those that aren't up to it. I expect to see lots of changes across these three games.
It's been almost impossible to be dropped from the ABs over the last 2/3 years, to our detriment. Pretty much only got new players in when injuries happen.
Oh come on Kirwan. What's with you logic, reason and identifying an upside?
Where's your outrage and feigned disinterest because Foster?
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Tonga:
Where's your outrage and feigned disinterest because Foster?
I'll go the genuine disinterest. It's a glorified training run, and the level won't be as high as SRA ... and probably SRTT. That's why it's not so exciting.
Great for those new AB, but it's a real step down. I love my rugby, but you have to prioritise, and Saturday night I may have other stuff on in my life that's more important.
Also, Foster. Fark.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@frank He wouldn't be if Clarke was there, and I suspect he's behind Ioane as well for the big games.
Not a lot of depth at wing.
He was the incumbent until getting injured, and got that incumbent position after carving up I think Japan? I'm expecting him to run in 6 tries against Tonga and secure that position again based on our recent selections.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@frank He wouldn't be if Clarke was there, and I suspect he's behind Ioane as well for the big games.
Not a lot of depth at wing.
He was the incumbent until getting injured, and got that incumbent position after carving up I think Japan? I'm expecting him to run in 6 tries against Tonga and secure that position again based on our recent selections.
Kind of reminds you of the bad old days of the Black Caps when one good innings in a losing cause would see you selected for the next two seasons.
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@machpants said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@gunner said in All Blacks v Tonga:
How/why is BB available for selection but TJP isn’t?
Because the entire time BB was in Japan he was still on the NZR books. TJP’s contract eneded, he went to Japan, then signed again afterwards. BB a sabbatical, TJ wasn’t. So TJ must play in pro NZ comp first.
I wonder when the last time that the ABs fielded a loose trio with less than 10 caps, must be years!
Ok cheers
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@crucial said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@frank He wouldn't be if Clarke was there, and I suspect he's behind Ioane as well for the big games.
Not a lot of depth at wing.
He was the incumbent until getting injured, and got that incumbent position after carving up I think Japan? I'm expecting him to run in 6 tries against Tonga and secure that position again based on our recent selections.
Kind of reminds you of the bad old days of the Black Caps when one good innings in a losing cause would see you selected for the next two seasons.
Happens these days too, Mitch Santner got way more caps than he should have on the back of that hundy.
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@rapido said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@nepia said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@rapido said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@rapido said in All Blacks v Tonga:
NZRU should actually let some Tongans play professional rugby in NZ and remain Tongan (and so should the Aussies). Reap what you sow. A loss making 'The massacre of the amateur brigade'.
We have nothing to do with clubs in the NH not releasing players, and circumstances meaning even if they did they would have to spend two weeks in quarantine.
3 uncapped born and bred Tongans in Super Rugby not playing. I wonder why. Let alone in NPC which is too hard to research.
Let alone NZ players with Tongan heritage (who are what plenty of these European based players are anyway)
The gaps left by European based players are being filled by NZ amateurs rather than NZ based professionals because NZRU and ARU central contracting blocks them. We are a funnel, we are not saints.
Presumably because they want to play for the All Blacks.
Also, why should a NZer of Tongan heritage be automatically be available for Tonga? I presume most of them want to try for the ABs.
Tokolahi? really? He's paying lip-service for employment reasons.
Taukei'aho? Yes, he will be an All Black.
Kata? He might play 1 year for Australia before buggering off like many of their Fijian wingers. He's still got a few years to go before qualifying. He is paying lip-service for employment reasons, but to his Australian employers.Re: this part:
why should a NZer of Tongan heritage be automatically be available for Tonga?
They shouldn't and they aren't. But plenty at NPC level (and a few at SR level) would IMO if it didn't hinder their employment chances. A few out of huge numbers would leave a team to pick from. Not club players.
We're not evil, but we are reaping what we sow here. We are a producer of talent and developer/polisher of talent (of the scholarships kids) - But we are not an an employer of non-NZ available talent. We have a only 5 poxy professional teams - for which those dual-qualified in those teams and those wanting to one day get in those teams delay their potential non-AB international careers.
Kata? Eek, he would never enter my brain. I was more meaning Fakatava. I doubt the Wallabies would ever select Kata.
You said it correctly, we only have 5 teams, therefore we can't afford to carry too many non qualified players. If someone wants to play for Tonga then that's a decision that involves moving to the money in the NH.
At any rate, as has been mentioned, this team's quality is a reflection of the pandemic, not NZ contracting policy.
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@frank He wouldn't be if Clarke was there, and I suspect he's behind Ioane as well for the big games.
Not a lot of depth at wing.
Sadly, I don't think Fozzie agrees with you here. He was the back coach who first selected Bridge and discarded Ioane and Smith on the basis of one game where pretty much every player inside them was shit.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Tonga:
Where's your outrage and feigned disinterest because Foster?
I'll go the genuine disinterest. It's a glorified training run, and the level won't be as high as SRA ... and probably SRTT. That's why it's not so exciting.
Great for those new AB, but it's a real step down. I love my rugby, but you have to prioritise, and Saturday night I may have other stuff on in my life that's more important.
Also, Foster. Fark.
All Blacks have played Sydney in the past. This is nothing new.
I agree it's not must watch TV, but they all can't be.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
All Blacks have played Sydney in the past. This is nothing new.
Don't bring up that game.
The ABs have often started the season with a game against a PI team in the last 20 years. The problem is that the options for the next tests are limited in a Lions tour year. Even the French team to play Aust will be under-strength.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v Tonga:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Tonga:
All Blacks have played Sydney in the past. This is nothing new.
Don't bring up that game.
The ABs have often started the season with a game against a PI team in the last 20 years. The problem is that the options for the next tests are limited in a Lions tour year. Even the French team to play Aust will be under-strength.
Was stirring with that choice
