Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 very lucky but Jamieson debuted Feb 2020 so can't be rooky of this year.
I posted this and was just waiting for some pedantic prick to point this out
That’s fine, Jamieson 2020, Conway 2021….I think we can go with that.
No pressure on any newbies for 2022 huh ?
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@synicbast said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Jesus, just read @majorrage post a moment ago just after i'd read this piece by Jarrod Kimber:
Not luck, not fluke - New Zealand deserve to be the World Test Champions
Cricket's second favourite team has fought hard and come a long way to become world No.1
I watched NZ win their first test against England in 1978, just scrape past the Windies in 1980,win with the Ilford Seconds in 1986, Marty & Andrew Jones bat for eons at the Basin, then the apocalypse that was 1995-2012 where we celebrated mediocrity and prostituted our test game for limited Overs - including match fixers.
Then after the nadir of South Africa, the captaincy change debacle, we saw the rise of McCullum (Captain's Knock Edition) - the glory that was the UAE no bumper test , McCullum making doubles and a triple, Southee, Boult, Wags, Rosco , Kane and Latham...s
and all I could think of while they were getting each single run was Bert Sutcliffe never playing ina test win, Martin Donnelly and Stewie Dempster having to make their money playing for County and invitation sides , the 49 tourists playing in England to force 4 day tests, the 73 tourists forcing 5 day tests, and finally thinking how Marty would have reacted to this one.
@MajorRage you said it far more eloquently than I ever could. This one means everything to people like me.
I'd dispute that the 1995 - 2012 period was that bad. In fact, we had a decent albeit inconsistent test side in the very late 90s and early 2000s. We drew a (weather assisted) three test series in Australia against an all time great Australian side, won a test at Lord's, thrashed also rans, won a series vs SA and had some wonderful individual success (Shane Bond, some of Fleming's innings, the Astle 200, Chris Cairns with both disciplines etc). At the same time in limited overs we won an ICC tournament, made it to ODI World Cup knock out stages in 1999 and 2003. Nathan Astle was considered one of the world's best ODI batsmen, again there was Bond (on occasion) and Cairns, Harry, Vettori and glimmers of hope from the likes of Roger Twose, Jacob Oram, Macca and Kyle Mills. So it was probably our third best era after the last few years and the 80s.
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@shark said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@synicbast said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Jesus, just read @majorrage post a moment ago just after i'd read this piece by Jarrod Kimber:
Not luck, not fluke - New Zealand deserve to be the World Test Champions
Cricket's second favourite team has fought hard and come a long way to become world No.1
I watched NZ win their first test against England in 1978, just scrape past the Windies in 1980,win with the Ilford Seconds in 1986, Marty & Andrew Jones bat for eons at the Basin, then the apocalypse that was 1995-2012 where we celebrated mediocrity and prostituted our test game for limited Overs - including match fixers.
Then after the nadir of South Africa, the captaincy change debacle, we saw the rise of McCullum (Captain's Knock Edition) - the glory that was the UAE no bumper test , McCullum making doubles and a triple, Southee, Boult, Wags, Rosco , Kane and Latham...s
and all I could think of while they were getting each single run was Bert Sutcliffe never playing ina test win, Martin Donnelly and Stewie Dempster having to make their money playing for County and invitation sides , the 49 tourists playing in England to force 4 day tests, the 73 tourists forcing 5 day tests, and finally thinking how Marty would have reacted to this one.
@MajorRage you said it far more eloquently than I ever could. This one means everything to people like me.
I'd dispute that the 1995 - 2012 period was that bad. In fact, we had a decent albeit inconsistent test side in the very late 90s and early 2000s. We drew a (weather assisted) three test series in Australia against an all time great Australian side, won a test at Lord's, thrashed also rans, won a series vs SA and had some wonderful individual success (Shane Bond, some of Fleming's innings, the Astle 200, Chris Cairns with both disciplines etc). At the same time in limited overs we won an ICC tournament, made it to ODI World Cup knock out stages in 1999 and 2003. Nathan Astle was considered one of the world's best ODI batsmen, again there was Bond (on occasion) and Cairns, Harry, Vettori and glimmers of hope from the likes of Roger Twose, Jacob Oram, Macca and Kyle Mills. So it was probably our third best era after the last few years and the 80s.
Agreed in that it was not our darkest hour but, for me, it was always be a bit a "what if" era, in that I think there was more talent in the team than the results suggested. The highlights you've mentioned and individual performances are a testament to that - the team had the talent to compete, but too often collapsed in a heap when things got hard.
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Weird tidbit more than half the side that won the final (Williamson, Taylor, Southee, Boult, Wagner and Watling) all played in This test in August 2012 against the West Indies which they lost by 5 wickets.
Hard to believe they were just five players away from being the best test side in the world at that stage.
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I see that Timmy from Oz hasn't stopped whinging.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I see that Timmy from Oz hasn't stopped whinging.
Get fucked Tim. You’re embarrassing yourself even more now.
Maybe if you were more like Adam Gilchrist your team would have done better.
Your team was docked points by one your Australian predecessors in David Boon.
If he keeps going like this he’s in serious danger of usurping Brad Haddin as my hatiest Aussie cricketer.
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They didn't make the final because they choked against India in front of their own fans. That should be the toughest pill to swallow.
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@no-quarter said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
They didn't make the final because they choked against India in front of their own fans. That should be the toughest pill to swallow.
And India essentially fielded a B team
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@no-quarter said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
They didn't make the final because they choked against India in front of their own fans. That should be the toughest pill to swallow.
If it was an English or Indian match referee who docked the points he may have a slight point….but it wasn’t, it was a bloke who is about as Aussie as is humanly possible.
So yeah, jog on Tim.
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@no-quarter said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
They didn't make the final because they choked against India in front of their own fans. That should be the toughest pill to swallow.
I seem to remember at the time that they didn't care. The time wasting was deliberate and they backed themselves to get wins to make up for it.
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Not sure how accurate this article is, did those four Windies quicks really only play SIX tests together ? ( I have vague memories of Colin Croft having an outstanding but short career too ).
Whilst I love what our boys have done I’m not sure they’re at that level.
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@rapido said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I don't know if it was inconsistent or not. But that in itself is a problem. It's very opaque.
Too dry and boring to be reported on, maybe?
It is up to the umpires and match referee to decide whether to 'lay charges' so yes there will be inconsistencies in the human element of application.
However, the umps are in the best position to make that call as they will be fully aware of what is going on out in the middle and whether it was an inevitable situation or deliberate slowness as a tactic or to keep certain bowlers operating.
The funny thing here is the karma. The 90 over minimum was only brought in after whinging by Oz because they didn't like those big mean Windies fast bowlers coming at them all day. -
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rapido said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I don't know if it was inconsistent or not. But that in itself is a problem. It's very opaque.
Too dry and boring to be reported on, maybe?
It is up to the umpires and match referee to decide whether to 'lay charges' so yes there will be inconsistencies in the human element of application.
However, the umps are in the best position to make that call as they will be fully aware of what is going on out in the middle and whether it was an inevitable situation or deliberate slowness as a tactic or to keep certain bowlers operating.
The funny thing here is the karma. The 90 over minimum was only brought in after whinging by Oz because they didn't like those big mean Windies fast bowlers coming at them all day.I think that is revisionist bollocks.
The ACB and (especially) Packer couldn't get enough of them, kept inviting them back as often as possible.I recall there was a very vocal anti-windian journalist or editor from England who banged the drums on (especially) initimidatory bowling and over rates, but can't remember who it was. I looked up the Wisden editors but don't recognise him in those names.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Not sure how accurate this article is, did those four Windies quicks really only play SIX tests together ? ( I have vague memories of Colin Croft having an outstanding but short career too ).
Whilst I love what our boys have done I’m not sure they’re at that level.
It probably is.
Roberts was near the end of his career when Marshall came on the scene. And as you point out, Croft was in the mix - as well as a production line of guys who played bit parts - Wayne Daniel, Winston Davis, Patrick Patterson, Sylvester Clarke, etc - any of whom we would have loved to have had.
It's interesting that Chappell picks Roberts as the scariest he face. I wonder if he faced Croffie? Probably in WSC. He was a scary mother - from what I've read, might have been a bit unbalanced. I recall Viv Richards said (after Croft became a pilot) that if he ever heard "This is your captain Croft speaking", he'd get off the plane!
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Same WTC cycle. Seems consistent to me.
South Africa docked six WTC points, fined 60% match fees for slow over-rate
Faf du Plessis' team charged after falling three overs short of target in absence of a spinner
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Not sure how accurate this article is, did those four Windies quicks really only play SIX tests together ? ( I have vague memories of Colin Croft having an outstanding but short career too ).
Whilst I love what our boys have done I’m not sure they’re at that level.
It probably is.
Roberts was near the end of his career when Marshall came on the scene. And as you point out, Croft was in the mix - as well as a production line of guys who played bit parts - Wayne Daniel, Winston Davis, Patrick Patterson, Sylvester Clarke, etc - any of whom we would have loved to have had.
It's interesting that Chappell picks Roberts as the scariest he face. I wonder if he faced Croffie? Probably in WSC. He was a scary mother - from what I've read, might have been a bit unbalanced. I recall Viv Richards said (after Croft became a pilot) that if he ever heard "This is your captain Croft speaking", he'd get off the plane!
Relatively speaking Roberts had the “worst” record too, averaging 25. Croft, Bishop and Walsh were all under that and Garner, Ambrose and Marshall had the nerve to average even better than our boy Paddles !
I agree about Croft, he looked pretty unhinged. How he didn’t get banned for life for this is beyond me.
