The Crusaders and their success
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@stargazer said in The Crusaders and their success:
I guess the point I'm trying to make - in far too many words - is that IMO the current salary cap and NZR system isn't responsible for the Crusaders gaining or holding on to their talent. I'd say, it's exactly their excellent management, great coaching and culture.
There's a big difference between developing talent and holding on to talent.
The salary cap/NZR system has allowed Crusaders to have All Blacks coming off the bench - the same is now happening for the Blues.
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Exactly.
It's a credit to them that they are a destination for players, and it seems that the blues are now on their way to being the second destination for talent, which is a testament to some good coach/back office recruiting. For the competition, it is a bit of a weakness though, as the current system does allow teams to stockpile talent without any penalty.
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Thr Melbourne storm got done not for buying players, but for paying heaps to keep the ones they developed.
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@gt12 said in The Crusaders and their success:
Exactly.
It's a credit to them that they are a destination for players, and it seems that the blues are now on their way to being the second destination for talent, which is a testament to some good coach/back office recruiting. For the competition, it is a bit of a weakness though, as the current system does allow teams to stockpile talent without any penalty.
I think that is a problem due to Japan now being a viable option to make more money.
NZR probably are thinking let the players play were they want to be be settled and play better rugby because of it and keep them in the comp.
Nepo Laulau and BB being cases in point they both wanted to move to the Blues, Nepo to be close to family and BB Because his wife had a good job in Auckland. -
@chris said in The Crusaders and their success:
@gt12 said in The Crusaders and their success:
Exactly.
It's a credit to them that they are a destination for players, and it seems that the blues are now on their way to being the second destination for talent, which is a testament to some good coach/back office recruiting. For the competition, it is a bit of a weakness though, as the current system does allow teams to stockpile talent without any penalty.
I think that is a problem due to Japan now being a viable option to make more money.
NZR probably are thinking let the players play were they want to be be settled and play better rugby because of it and keep them in the comp.
Nepo Laulau and BB being cases in point they both wanted to move to the Blues, Nepo to be close to family and BB Because his wife had a good job in Auckland.Absolutely, and as an AB fan, I get it. But, it means that the Blues are now starting to stockpile talent, so the weaknesses in depth are getting further exposed.
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A salary cap does not prevent players from playing for their team of choice. If a player is more concerned about money they'll go where the highest offer is, but if the success of the team/coaching is more important then they might just have to be prepared to be paid below their market value to fit within the cap. NZR is more concerned about keeping their best players in NZ than where they play.
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if anything i think looking for money will draw players to the best team, not because they that team pays more but because they are more likely to look good and get a look in at the next level where they will get paid more
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@gt12 said in The Crusaders and their success:
@chris said in The Crusaders and their success:
@gt12 said in The Crusaders and their success:
Exactly.
It's a credit to them that they are a destination for players, and it seems that the blues are now on their way to being the second destination for talent, which is a testament to some good coach/back office recruiting. For the competition, it is a bit of a weakness though, as the current system does allow teams to stockpile talent without any penalty.
I think that is a problem due to Japan now being a viable option to make more money.
NZR probably are thinking let the players play were they want to be be settled and play better rugby because of it and keep them in the comp.
Nepo Laulau and BB being cases in point they both wanted to move to the Blues, Nepo to be close to family and BB Because his wife had a good job in Auckland.Absolutely, and as an AB fan, I get it. But, it means that the Blues are now starting to stockpile talent, so the weaknesses in depth are getting further exposed.
Yep thats going impact on the other 3 teams even harder.
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@kiwiwomble said in The Crusaders and their success:
if anything i think looking for money will draw players to the best team, not because they that team pays more but because they are more likely to look good and get a look in at the next level where they will get paid more
A real salary cap would include your SR and AB salary, not just a player's SR salary. Look at the NRL. The club pays your salary and needs to fit x players in the squad under the salary cap. If you make an origin or international team you get a small bonus in your earnings outside of the cap.
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@chris said in The Crusaders and their success:
@gt12 said in The Crusaders and their success:
Exactly.
It's a credit to them that they are a destination for players, and it seems that the blues are now on their way to being the second destination for talent, which is a testament to some good coach/back office recruiting. For the competition, it is a bit of a weakness though, as the current system does allow teams to stockpile talent without any penalty.
I think that is a problem due to Japan now being a viable option to make more money.
NZR probably are thinking let the players play were they want to be be settled and play better rugby because of it and keep them in the comp.
Nepo Laulau and BB being cases in point they both wanted to move to the Blues, Nepo to be close to family and BB Because his wife had a good job in Auckland.BB had a bloody good job in Wellington. Who wears the pants in that family?
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@higgins said in The Crusaders and their success:
@chris said in The Crusaders and their success:
@gt12 said in The Crusaders and their success:
Exactly.
It's a credit to them that they are a destination for players, and it seems that the blues are now on their way to being the second destination for talent, which is a testament to some good coach/back office recruiting. For the competition, it is a bit of a weakness though, as the current system does allow teams to stockpile talent without any penalty.
I think that is a problem due to Japan now being a viable option to make more money.
NZR probably are thinking let the players play were they want to be be settled and play better rugby because of it and keep them in the comp.
Nepo Laulau and BB being cases in point they both wanted to move to the Blues, Nepo to be close to family and BB Because his wife had a good job in Auckland.BB had a bloody good job in Wellington. Who wears the pants in that family?
Haha you know -
@higgins said in The Crusaders and their success:
@chris said in The Crusaders and their success:
@gt12 said in The Crusaders and their success:
Exactly.
It's a credit to them that they are a destination for players, and it seems that the blues are now on their way to being the second destination for talent, which is a testament to some good coach/back office recruiting. For the competition, it is a bit of a weakness though, as the current system does allow teams to stockpile talent without any penalty.
I think that is a problem due to Japan now being a viable option to make more money.
NZR probably are thinking let the players play were they want to be be settled and play better rugby because of it and keep them in the comp.
Nepo Laulau and BB being cases in point they both wanted to move to the Blues, Nepo to be close to family and BB Because his wife had a good job in Auckland.BB had a bloody good job in Wellington. Who wears the pants in that family?
I think he could see the writing on the wall. He’s got too much skill and flair to be a donkey Canes number 10.
He didn’t want to suffer the fate Carlos did when Irish Joe decided he wanted Lavea as his 10 for the Blues.
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@higgins said in The Crusaders and their success:
@chris said in The Crusaders and their success:
@gt12 said in The Crusaders and their success:
Exactly.
It's a credit to them that they are a destination for players, and it seems that the blues are now on their way to being the second destination for talent, which is a testament to some good coach/back office recruiting. For the competition, it is a bit of a weakness though, as the current system does allow teams to stockpile talent without any penalty.
I think that is a problem due to Japan now being a viable option to make more money.
NZR probably are thinking let the players play were they want to be be settled and play better rugby because of it and keep them in the comp.
Nepo Laulau and BB being cases in point they both wanted to move to the Blues, Nepo to be close to family and BB Because his wife had a good job in Auckland.BB had a bloody good job in Wellington. Who wears the pants in that family?
She gets a better job, and he gets a better job. Also, the climate's better up north
More to life than rugby sometimes -
@stargazer said in The Crusaders and their success:
I'd hardly call Ta$man a halfway house for Crusaders.
I was talking about during the era before they abolished the catchment system model. There was a period around 2007-2011 where Ta$man were signing the likes of Rico Gear, Ali Williams, Brad Thorn, Chris Jack, Ben Franks etc on full freight NPC contracts despite being unavailable for most of the season on international duty. It was all about the Crusaders and the NZRU propped them up when they were due to be culled bleeding cash.
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The Crusaders especially Scott Robertson has some special ties with other coaches Craig Belamey for one, both of these coaches spend time at each others trainings and coaching boxes.Razor searches out other successful coaches and teams to learn and incorporate ideas into the Crusaders.
Razor has spent time in the US with an NFL team and in UK with a premier league side.
Thinking beyond the box is a Crusaders theme to keep ahead of the pack. -
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@dogmeat said in The Crusaders and their success:
@chris TBF Auckland were doing that 30 years ago.
Maybe they didn't carry it on or they don't connect anymore,I know its been a big help in developing and keeping things fresh not just through Razor,Deans and Smith were also doing it before Razor.
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@rotated said in The Crusaders and their success:
@stargazer said in The Crusaders and their success:
I'd hardly call Ta$man a halfway house for Crusaders.
I was talking about during the era before they abolished the catchment system model. There was a period around 2007-2011 where Ta$man were signing the likes of Rico Gear, Ali Williams, Brad Thorn, Chris Jack, Ben Franks etc on full freight NPC contracts despite being unavailable for most of the season on international duty. It was all about the Crusaders and the NZRU propped them up when they were due to be culled bleeding cash.
I think your premise is correct - Rico was actually signed (pre- Ta$man) by Nelson Bays, which pissed North Harbour immensely, because it avoided some sort of transfer fee payable for guys shifting between 1st Division unions. Rico's subsequent sulk pretty clearly indicated that it was all about the Crusaders (he got loaned by Ta$man to Canterbury, when he said he didn't want to play for Ta$man).
I'm thinking though that Ta$man wouldn't have had to pay much to Brad or Ali - who played one game between them.
Ta$man was mainly leaking money due to having to upgrade both Landsdowne Park and Trafalgar Park to meet NZRU specifications AND (so I heard from a decent source, but this isn't gospel) because a crazy amount of player contracts had been issued including decent chunks of money to fringe people who were unlikely to ever play.
Edit: Google tells me....
To survive the recently appointed Union CEO, Peter Barr, set about cutting costs, including a self-imposed salary cap, a reduction in contracted players from 55 to 28 and lowered funding for representative programmes.
Tasman Rugby Union
