All Blacks 2021
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Carlos was a flakey kicker, Leon was (hmm, big boot but I'm trying to remember his then accuracy), Carter was a guppy (but I remember seeing him as 12, from bench I think, and going, this guy looks good) but he got injured pretty quickly and I don't recall anyone mentioning him as a kicking substitute.
Ben Blair was, I'm pretty sure of it. I can't remember if his horror game was before selection, during, or after though. I suspect he has a lot of Fernie disapproval in part because he failed to reach Ardie-esque lofty heights.
Edit: and I think Blair was the most accurate kicker that season, or at least pretty close to it.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
If we were going forward pack you might have a better argument
Mitch gets far more shit for coaching and selecting thrown his way than is deserved.
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@mariner4life didnt he pick a raw young flanker called Richie after 1 season of NPC and riding the pine in Super rugby?
Josh Kronfeld wasnt a fan in 2001..he did come round though
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Atiga wasn’t in the original squad. He only came in when Blair got injured.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Atiga wasn’t in the original squad. He only came in when Blair got injured.
I’m unsure what difference that makes?
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@taniwharugby got criticised for picking Mealamu too when many said he couldn’t throw straight and that was a hookers main priority etc etc
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
Carlos Spencer (AB 951) was first picked for the ABs by Laurie Mains for the tour of Italy and France at the end of the 1995.
Doug Howlett (AB 992) was first capped by Wayne Smith in 2000.
Mils, Joe Rok, Ma'a Nonu, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Andrew Hore, Kevin Mealamu and Ali Williams were all first picked Cueball. But so were Paul Steinmetz, Ben Atiga and Keith Lowen. As a Selector, Mitchell was hit and miss.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks 2021:
@taniwharugby got criticised for picking Mealamu too when many said he couldn’t throw straight and that was a hookers main priority etc etc
I don’t remember Kev being a bad line out thrower, like say Anton. Have I blocked that out?
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Atiga wasn’t in the original squad. He only came in when Blair got injured.
I’m unsure what difference that makes?
It makes plenty of difference because Atiga wasn’t selected over Cullen (as you said).
Blair may have been, but Blair was the third choice fullback and third choice 1st 5 in that squad.
I wonder if Cullen would’ve been third choice fullback….
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@act-crusader in a squad with Anton OLiver...
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Atiga wasn’t in the original squad. He only came in when Blair got injured.
I’m unsure what difference that makes?
It makes plenty of difference because Atiga wasn’t selected over Cullen (as you said).
Blair may have been, but Blair was the third choice fullback and third choice 1st 5 in that squad.
And Mitchell and Deans' fourth choice First Five behind Carlos, Rangi and Ben Blair was Dan Carter who turned out to be the Greatest Of All Time.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Atiga wasn’t in the original squad. He only came in when Blair got injured.
I’m unsure what difference that makes?
It makes plenty of difference because Atiga wasn’t selected over Cullen (as you said).
Blair may have been, but Blair was the third choice fullback and third choice 1st 5 in that squad.
I wonder if Cullen would’ve been third choice fullback….
Yes he was. They had the option to pick Cullen and chose Atiga.
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