All Blacks 2021
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
I'm a firm believer that coaching careers are made on the back of rosters. More astute observers can see a coach that gets more than the sum of their players.
And that goes double for assistants. I don't think there's a person on this forum who doesn't believe Wayne Smith bettered every setup he was involved in.
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged. What's not arguable in my mind is Mooar has to go.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
Agreed. Need for joined-up thinking across the piece is pretty clear to me. Interesting comment you make on "entertainment" - makes me wonder how much the $$ is influencing things more than before
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged.
If you're appointing a new coach, wouldn't you want to ensure you had the ducks reasonably in a row, assistant-wise, first?
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
Agreed. Need for joined-up thinking across the piece is pretty clear to me. Interesting comment you make on "entertainment" - makes me wonder how much the $$ is influencing things more than before
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged.
If you're appointing a new coach, wouldn't you want to ensure you had the ducks reasonably in a row, assistant-wise, first?
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
It appears that they front up with a team in place, but I'd certainly think the selection panel/NZR to have a significant input on the final coaching set-up.
I can't believe that used a "take everyone or no-one" approach when deciding on the coaching group. Worrying if they do.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
It appears that they front up with a team in place, but I'd certainly think the selection panel/NZR to have a significant input on the final coaching set-up.
I can't believe that used a "take everyone of no-one" approach when deciding on the coaching group. Worrying if they do.
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped. It was cartel vs Robbie and Pat Lam(?) among others
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped.
I always thought NZR got to review/approve the assistants in '08 and not just select GH and upvote the entire Cartel. I'll have to re-read Redemption.....
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@siam said in All Blacks 2021:
Just the way the
oldexperienced blokes performed in the team, it all looks like a stale environment. Odds on it not freshening up over the next 2 years.
sighđFIFY
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped.
I always thought NZR got to review/approve the assistants in '08 and not just select GH and upvote the entire Cartel. I'll have to re-read Redemption.....
Research and report back please
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped.
I always thought NZR got to review/approve the assistants in '08 and not just select GH and upvote the entire Cartel. I'll have to re-read Redemption.....
Research and report back please
I'll have to find the kindle it was on first.... In the meantime, I found this which seems to indicate they looked at them individually and as a group (which turned out well)
the NZRU have stuck by Henry and his assistants again. "We think all three individually are very strong but as a coaching unit they are even stronger," said NZRU chairman Jack Hobbs. "Holding all three was important. They have a formidable record and we hold them in very high regard. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
I'm pretty sure in articles Foster went on about his coaching team so I personally feel he chose them.
That could just be a taking ownership thing.
The question for me is around the who selection process for the Assistants. Was or is he able to recruit who he likes, does the NZRFU give a list of candidates, or do they work with the coach to give him what he needs while maintaining continuity/ building experience of coaching the national team?
The sort of thing any review should look at, as it doesn't seem to be working...
I have however found some of Ian Foster's stellar analysis, such as after the Ireland game, where he blames the players, not any coach:
What part of his analysis didn't you agree with? I thought it was pretty much in line with the post-match comments on here and other media, particularly the kicking away of possession and playing like headless chooks under pressure which has been evident for 4-5 years
Th real question to Foster should be: So what are you going to do about it?
this part:
While he acknowledged his big men were outplayed by their Irish counterparts, Foster said his backs need to shoulder some of the blame for their defeat as **he believes they didnât allow the forwards to perform to the best of their ability.**He doesn't question the coaching tactics or forwards selections, both were criticized on here.
âI think our packâs gone pretty well through the year. Overall, Iâve been reasonably satisfied to date,â Foster said.I don't believe this has been shared by the majority of Ferners either.
Plus:
âI thought we turned over a lot of ball in the backs within one-to-two phases again, and thatâs something that actually hurt us in the first test against South Africa, even though we won it."maybe, but consider this:
Outrageous stat perfectly sums up Ireland's huge win against All Blacks - Extra.ie
Ireland put in an heroic effort to beat the All Blacks on Saturday but one simple stat summed up the whole occasion at the Aviva.
Farrellâs side charges spent a remarkable eight minutes and three seconds over in the New Zealand 22. While youâd usually assume that the All Blacks would muster up something similar, they were absolutely miles off â Ian Fosterâs side spent a mere 37 seconds in the Irish 22.Sounds to me the AB forwards were not that great. The kicking metres weren't too dissimilar.
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He doesn't question the coaching tactics or forwards selections, both were criticized on here.
TBF, he was specifically talking about the poor kicking and the need for the backs to shoulder some of the blame.
I'm not sure I judge a coach's analytics by how much he agrees with what is said here. (If we did, we'd only have atheists in the coaching team.....).
But I think his comments on the backs kicking was pretty much spot-on
âI think our packâs gone pretty well through the year. Overall, Iâve been reasonably satisfied to date,â Foster said.
I don't believe this has been shared by the majority of Ferners either.
Fair comment. As I've said, I really don't see a game plan - let alone tactics - and the forwards do go well - and then lose momentum, time and time again
Farrellâs side charges spent a remarkable eight minutes and three seconds over in the New Zealand 22.
While youâd usually assume that the All Blacks would muster up something similar, they were absolutely miles off â Ian Fosterâs side spent a mere 37 seconds in the Irish 22.
Sounds to me the AB forwards were not that great. The kicking metres weren't too dissimilar.
I pretty much agree. The number of times we got on the front foot and lost momentum was painful - and our kicking contributed greatly to that, if not more as it put us on the back foot. Real headless chook stuff all round. Minimal on-field leadership.
The only positive was our defence which was good, IIRC.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged. What's not arguable in my mind is Mooar has to go.
Have to admit I don't know much about Mooar, wasn't he part of the much vaunted Crusaders coaching group ? As I said I never really followed his coaching career much.
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@sbw1 said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial Has Warren Gatland or Chris Boyd been considered for an All Black role. I think John Mitchell should be called upon especially when taking on England.
Both Gatland and Bord I believe were invited to apply for AB's job. I have heard Gatland say he has never applied for a coachs job, all his jobs were offered to him.
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged. What's not arguable in my mind is Mooar has to go.
Have to admit I don't know much about Mooar, wasn't he part of the much vaunted Crusaders coaching group ? As I said I never really followed his coaching career much.
According to posters earlier in the thread Razor inherited Mooar then got rid of him at first opportunity.
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged. What's not arguable in my mind is Mooar has to go.
Have to admit I don't know much about Mooar, wasn't he part of the much vaunted Crusaders coaching group ? As I said I never really followed his coaching career much.
According to posters earlier in the thread Razor inherited Mooar then got rid of him at first opportunity.
After 2 years of success? Anyway according to posters' is hardly factual is it. I was under the impression he went up North for a head coaching job in Wales or somewhere. Guess I should check.somewhere, but I guess it not that important.
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Ănyway if our forward pack is losing the battle (which I don't disagree with) let's hear opinions on who should be in there. I am trying to think who else I would bring in to strengthen the pack. I worry a bit about my favourite Sam Whitelock, at times looks a little weary, and Retallic I think will be better for a season of super after a couple of years in Japan. Definitely think we are stronger with Cane on side of scrum, just got to get right players at 6 & 8 so I reckon Ardie has got 8 tied up at this stage.
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
Ănyway if our forward pack is losing the battle (which I don't disagree with) let's hear opinions on who should be in there. I am trying to think who else I would bring in to strengthen the pack. I worry a bit about my favourite Sam Whitelock, at times looks a little weary, and Retallic I think will be better for a season of super after a couple of years in Japan. Definitely think we are stronger with Cane on side of scrum, just got to get right players at 6 & 8 so I reckon Ardie has got 8 tied up at this stage.
Ardie is the 'problem' really. Very skilled, dynamic and a leader. Trouble is that his value drops a touch against well drilled hard nose opposition. 90% of the time he is the experienced first choice but that makes him really hard to drop for the other 10%.
I think that with Cane back the balance is better though. His accuracy in the tackle and ability to stop momentum is much better than our alternatives atm.
We do need our 6 to be playing tighter though. We need tackle impact and leg drive there. The shuffling last year (which I do understand was maybe necessary) didn't help cement that spot but it did provide experience and show areas for work.
I also hope that BBBR comes back his old self this year and if Sam is fading then he becomes a starter or finisher depending on the game.
Front row go forward is our biggest need. We have the solution at hooker but need to retire the old boys. Our props though aren't hitting hard enough or driving well enough. Again we are at a crossroads where experience maybe needs to make way for youth.Short answer is that we are still identifying and assessing the player solutions but need to nail them into place this year.
BBC SPORT | Rugby Union | All Blacks keep faith with Henry
