All Blacks 2021
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
I'm not sure what has happened to his case and I don't want to go there but it is not only bad optics this is a perfect chance to test other loosies (unless they think SF is integral, and from what I read of Foster's thoughts it appears he thinks so).
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
I'm not sure what has happened to his case and I don't want to go there but it is not only bad optics this is a perfect chance to test other loosies (unless they think SF is integral, and from what I read of Foster's thoughts it appears he thinks so).
Particularly if you want a blindside/lock there is ginger in Northland worth a look.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
I'm not sure what has happened to his case and I don't want to go there but it is not only bad optics this is a perfect chance to test other loosies (unless they think SF is integral, and from what I read of Foster's thoughts it appears he thinks so).
Particularly if you want a blindside/lock there is ginger in Northland worth a look.
You see through my subterfuge
But I am not sure if he is now fit? -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
I'm not sure what has happened to his case and I don't want to go there but it is not only bad optics this is a perfect chance to test other loosies (unless they think SF is integral, and from what I read of Foster's thoughts it appears he thinks so).
Particularly if you want a blindside/lock there is ginger in Northland worth a look.
You see through my subterfuge
But I am not sure if he is now fit?Me either, but neither is Frizzell....
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@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
Frizell has been mentioned as providing cover as the 5th lock in the squad. He shouldn't have been selected though.
Thank you, time for me to ask this, then, who would you prefer as a bench/replacement lock, Frizell or Robinson?
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@nostrildamus I honestly don't know why Robinson has been consistantly left out. He seems tailor-made for test rugby if he keeps fit.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus I honestly don't know why Robinson has been consistantly left out. He seems tailor-made for test rugby if he keeps fit.
It could be his injuries, timing? But I kind of wonder if his workrate would be useful as a 6/lock off the bench but perhaps more at lock given Ethan provides that at 6...
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
Frizell has been mentioned as providing cover as the 5th lock in the squad. He shouldn't have been selected though.
Thank you, time for me to ask this, then, who would you prefer as a bench/replacement lock, Frizell or Robinson?
I had no problem with the initial selection of Frizell. BUT he has been given an opportunity and hasn't transferred SR performances into test performances, so time to move on.
I rate Robinson although we haven't seen him used as a lock enough to say he could fill that role, particularly in the scrum. He really should play there for the Blues next season given their depth in the loose forwards compared to lock.
For the ABs, however, I'm not sure we will see a lock/6 in the reserves as they will likely use Barrett on the bench.
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i have historically been probably frizells biggest champion on here since joining....but now would rather see robinson
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
i have historically been probably frizells biggest champion on here since joining....but now would rather see robinson
I've always thought of Frizell as being a bit "meh" ie, he's not quick or skillful or has a high workrate like Akira Ioane, Jacobson or even Blackadder. Plus he's not the monster 6 like Collins or Kaino. He's good at Super level but at international he's average IMO.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
Frizell has been mentioned as providing cover as the 5th lock in the squad. He shouldn't have been selected though.
Thank you, time for me to ask this, then, who would you prefer as a bench/replacement lock, Frizell or Robinson?
I had no problem with the initial selection of Frizell. BUT he has been given an opportunity and hasn't transferred SR performances into test performances, so time to move on.
I rate Robinson although we haven't seen him used as a lock enough to say he could fill that role, particularly in the scrum. He really should play there for the Blues next season given their depth in the loose forwards compared to lock.
For the ABs, however, I'm not sure we will see a lock/6 in the reserves as they will likely use Barrett on the bench.
It'll be interesting at the Blues next season as Robinson is the incumbent 6. If you're looking at balance Blues would likely start with Papali'i, Sotutu and Ioane with Robinson coming off the bench. There is alot to like about his game, size, workrate etc. Not sure about his ability to cover lock though, I'd say a no until we see him in a few games.
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@themojoman with Pat T leaving, Robinson is likely to be captain, which you'd think he would move into lock given the loose forward quality, or maybe sharing time between the positions.
As for Tom, yeah last year I think he had a bit of a hammy issue during NPC after having been out during Super with a shoulder injury, and then this year was out cold after he and Zarn Sullivan clashed heads in an NPC pre-season and I think they have been extra cautious on him, given he has only just this weekend been named on the Northland bench.
He looks like he'd be one of those guys that would step into Test rugby like he's been there before, fingers crossed for next season for him to have a good run with no injuries!
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Let's wait and see how Super Rugby Pasific goes in 2022. There are more contenders. Not sure the ABs are looking for a lock loosie, esp if it's to replace Frizell, if they're even contemplating replacing him. If they do, they may look for another 6/8 or 8/6.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
Let's wait and see how Super Rugby Pasific goes in 2022. There are more contenders. Not sure the ABs are looking for a lock loosie, esp if it's to replace Frizell, if they're even contemplating replacing him. If they do, they may look for another 6/8 or 8/6.
That's pretty well covered with Akira, Jacobson, Sotutu and even Dalton and Cane. But a player that can effectively play 6 and lock would be useful in smaller WC squads.
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Yeah, and Barrett isn’t the be all and end all of lock/6 bench options. Arguably we’d want a 6/lock as our locks can often do 80 minutes.
I see it as the best path for him to break into the squad, after which he’d have heavy competition for the 23 from Barrett.
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@kirwan Well, I see it differently.
Sotutu has yet to convince me and I don't like Cane at 6 (and is not a long term option aged 29 and breaking so often). Haven't seen Jacobson much in the black 6 jersey either. I think Blackadder makes more sense at 6.
If Sotutu has another anonymous SR season, and others step up, I'd like to see them given a chance, especially if they finally realise that they need to drop Frizell. We have so many young locks now in the mix, that I'd rather see them focus on developing the backrow (finding the right mix).
Anyway, the squad is unusually big this year, so they're more likely to drop people without replacing them, next year.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan Well, I see it differently.
Sotutu has yet to convince me and I don't like Cane at 6 (and is not a long term option aged 29 and breaking so often). Haven't seen Jacobson much in the black 6 jersey either. I think Blackadder makes more sense at 6.
If Sotutu has another anonymous SR season, and others step up, I'd like to see them given a chance, especially if they finally realise that they need to drop Frizell. We have so many young locks now in the mix, that I'd rather see them focus on developing the backrow (finding the right mix).
Anyway, the squad is unusually big this year, so they're more likely to drop people without replacing them, next year.
As pure number eight options, really only Sotutu and Jacobson looking AB level from Super Rygby (I'll ignore your mistaken opinion about Sotutu having an anonymous season).
Ardie and Blackadder both look more effective at seven, and need to be left there IMO. We can't keep making the same mistakes against the bigger teams.
That means a big player, like Akira or Jacobson, at six. A specialist eight, and specialist seven.
That means Akira, Jacobson and Ardie for me (ignoring Cane until next year). Dalton covering 6/7 from the bench.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan Well, I see it differently.
Sotutu has yet to convince me and I don't like Cane at 6 (and is not a long term option aged 29 and breaking so often). Haven't seen Jacobson much in the black 6 jersey either. I think Blackadder makes more sense at 6.
If Sotutu has another anonymous SR season, and others step up, I'd like to see them given a chance, especially if they finally realise that they need to drop Frizell. We have so many young locks now in the mix, that I'd rather see them focus on developing the backrow (finding the right mix).
Anyway, the squad is unusually big this year, so they're more likely to drop people without replacing them, next year.
As pure number eight options, really only Sotutu and Jacobson looking AB level from Super Rygby (I'll ignore your mistaken opinion about Sotutu having an anonymous season).
Ardie and Blackadder both look more effective at seven, and need to be left there IMO. We can't keep making the same mistakes against the bigger teams.
That means a big player, like Akira or Jacobson, at six. A specialist eight, and specialist seven.
That means Akira, Jacobson and Ardie for me (ignoring Cane until next year). Dalton covering 6/7 from the bench.
Hilarious how you always present your opinion as fact and that of others as a mistake.
We're allowed to express a different opinion to yours, aren't we? And those opinions are just as valid/invalid as yours!
