All Blacks 2021
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus yeah, ive come around too cane being first choice when fit, he was great last year after coming back from injury...but he's no DC/Mccaw/Lomu etc as far as irreplaceable, it does kind of stike me as a time to build more depth, give paps and blackadder more time in the black jersey
I dont see why you cant do that and also have him there to provide advice and leadership about how to be successful? There are at least three other 7 options in the squad.
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@gt12 fair point, i guess i had assumed as captain he would come in to start
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I like the way they’ve done it with Whitelock as captain, and Cane back in the leadership group. They can see how he goes, aren’t required to use him yet, and when(if) he earns his spot back people cant use the ‘only because he’s their pet captain’ line.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus yeah, ive come around too cane being first choice when fit, he was great last year after coming back from injury...but he's no DC/Mccaw/Lomu etc as far as irreplaceable, it does kind of stike me as a time to build more depth, give paps and blackadder more time in the black jersey
I dont see why you cant do that and also have him there to provide advice and leadership about how to be successful? There are at least three other 7 options in the squad.
Yeah the depth is there, he’s ‘hoping’ to be back for the last 2 tests, but maybe he won’t or just on the bench, or plays only the last - he’ll be fresh compared to many of the others who have been touring for 2 months more
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
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@antipodean I think I'd put almost any NPC 7 in the ABs ahead of that dickhead.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
I'm not sure what has happened to his case and I don't want to go there but it is not only bad optics this is a perfect chance to test other loosies (unless they think SF is integral, and from what I read of Foster's thoughts it appears he thinks so).
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
I'm not sure what has happened to his case and I don't want to go there but it is not only bad optics this is a perfect chance to test other loosies (unless they think SF is integral, and from what I read of Foster's thoughts it appears he thinks so).
Particularly if you want a blindside/lock there is ginger in Northland worth a look.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
I'm not sure what has happened to his case and I don't want to go there but it is not only bad optics this is a perfect chance to test other loosies (unless they think SF is integral, and from what I read of Foster's thoughts it appears he thinks so).
Particularly if you want a blindside/lock there is ginger in Northland worth a look.
You see through my subterfuge
But I am not sure if he is now fit? -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
'I'm not quite in good enough shape to be playing test footy': Sam Cane's stark admission
Sam Cane doesn't expect to be locked in as a certain starter for this week's test against Wales, and he doesn't think you should either.
thoughts? is a tour the place to get back match fit or would have have been better playing NPC and giving one of the other a few more games in the black jersey?
I'd say he'd come up to speed quicker in that environment than playing in the NPC.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants really? He is one of two loose forwards who arguably are only fit to be foodbills. Chance wasted to try out more loosies IMO.
I'd take an underdone Cane over a fit Kirifi.
Yes, well, I'm a Sam Cane fan.
But if I can't complain about a frontrunner injured AB taken on tour (don't they have enough leaders now maybe not in the loosies) I'd still question the inclusion of injured Frizell.
Harder for him to beat up women if in camp?
I'm not sure what has happened to his case and I don't want to go there but it is not only bad optics this is a perfect chance to test other loosies (unless they think SF is integral, and from what I read of Foster's thoughts it appears he thinks so).
Particularly if you want a blindside/lock there is ginger in Northland worth a look.
You see through my subterfuge
But I am not sure if he is now fit?Me either, but neither is Frizzell....
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@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
Frizell has been mentioned as providing cover as the 5th lock in the squad. He shouldn't have been selected though.
Thank you, time for me to ask this, then, who would you prefer as a bench/replacement lock, Frizell or Robinson?
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@nostrildamus I honestly don't know why Robinson has been consistantly left out. He seems tailor-made for test rugby if he keeps fit.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus I honestly don't know why Robinson has been consistantly left out. He seems tailor-made for test rugby if he keeps fit.
It could be his injuries, timing? But I kind of wonder if his workrate would be useful as a 6/lock off the bench but perhaps more at lock given Ethan provides that at 6...
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
Frizell has been mentioned as providing cover as the 5th lock in the squad. He shouldn't have been selected though.
Thank you, time for me to ask this, then, who would you prefer as a bench/replacement lock, Frizell or Robinson?
I had no problem with the initial selection of Frizell. BUT he has been given an opportunity and hasn't transferred SR performances into test performances, so time to move on.
I rate Robinson although we haven't seen him used as a lock enough to say he could fill that role, particularly in the scrum. He really should play there for the Blues next season given their depth in the loose forwards compared to lock.
For the ABs, however, I'm not sure we will see a lock/6 in the reserves as they will likely use Barrett on the bench.
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i have historically been probably frizells biggest champion on here since joining....but now would rather see robinson
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
i have historically been probably frizells biggest champion on here since joining....but now would rather see robinson
I've always thought of Frizell as being a bit "meh" ie, he's not quick or skillful or has a high workrate like Akira Ioane, Jacobson or even Blackadder. Plus he's not the monster 6 like Collins or Kaino. He's good at Super level but at international he's average IMO.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
Frizell has been mentioned as providing cover as the 5th lock in the squad. He shouldn't have been selected though.
Thank you, time for me to ask this, then, who would you prefer as a bench/replacement lock, Frizell or Robinson?
I had no problem with the initial selection of Frizell. BUT he has been given an opportunity and hasn't transferred SR performances into test performances, so time to move on.
I rate Robinson although we haven't seen him used as a lock enough to say he could fill that role, particularly in the scrum. He really should play there for the Blues next season given their depth in the loose forwards compared to lock.
For the ABs, however, I'm not sure we will see a lock/6 in the reserves as they will likely use Barrett on the bench.
It'll be interesting at the Blues next season as Robinson is the incumbent 6. If you're looking at balance Blues would likely start with Papali'i, Sotutu and Ioane with Robinson coming off the bench. There is alot to like about his game, size, workrate etc. Not sure about his ability to cover lock though, I'd say a no until we see him in a few games.
