AB all time pro-era XXIII
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Ian Jones is so overrated
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@Chester-Draws said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Sam Whitelock is a great player. But no way is he an all-time great. He never dominates like Retallick. When he doesn't play you don't see that much difference -- unlike most of the players listed. When Rettalick is absent a team really notices.
I would pick Ian Jones a million times over him. Lineout master and superb athlete.
Actually, I'd pick Brad Thorn over him too. Not flashy, but a much more physical presence.
There's a few locks who played for money that I suppose aren't pro era like Gary Whetton that are much better too. Andy Haden for you oldies.
Please see here (timestamp 1:25.17):
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@mariner4life said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Bunce
Close, I know, but I'd have Conrad ahead of Bunce. His rugby smarts were on another level.
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@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Could have easily picked Carl Hayman, M.Jones, Z.Brooke, A.Mehrtens, B.Barrett, Umaga, SBW and F.Bunce. Fantastic players all. We really have been had some amazing players in the last 25 years.
Mehrts is a stretch over DC.
BB for the bench though.
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@gt12 said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@Chester-Draws said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Sam Whitelock is a great player. But no way is he an all-time great. He never dominates like Retallick. When he doesn't play you don't see that much difference -- unlike most of the players listed. When Rettalick is absent a team really notices.
I would pick Ian Jones a million times over him. Lineout master and superb athlete.
Actually, I'd pick Brad Thorn over him too. Not flashy, but a much more physical presence.
There's a few locks who played for money that I suppose aren't pro era like Gary Whetton that are much better too. Andy Haden for you oldies.
Please see here (timestamp 1:25.17):
I upvoted because I assume you refer to the lineout steal. I haven't watched the video
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@booboo said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@gt12 said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@Chester-Draws said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Sam Whitelock is a great player. But no way is he an all-time great. He never dominates like Retallick. When he doesn't play you don't see that much difference -- unlike most of the players listed. When Rettalick is absent a team really notices.
I would pick Ian Jones a million times over him. Lineout master and superb athlete.
Actually, I'd pick Brad Thorn over him too. Not flashy, but a much more physical presence.
There's a few locks who played for money that I suppose aren't pro era like Gary Whetton that are much better too. Andy Haden for you oldies.
Please see here (timestamp 1:25.17):
I upvoted because I assume you refer to the lineout steal. I haven't watched the video
That's the way of the Fern.
(and you're right)
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@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Could have easily picked Carl Hayman, M.Jones, Z.Brooke, A.Mehrtens, B.Barrett, Umaga, SBW and F.Bunce. Fantastic players all. We really have been had some amazing players in the last 25 years.
If Nonu, Bunce, Smith, Umaga, Mauger and Little all broke their legs simultaneously he might get a mention.
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@booboo said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@gt12 said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@Chester-Draws said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Sam Whitelock is a great player. But no way is he an all-time great. He never dominates like Retallick. When he doesn't play you don't see that much difference -- unlike most of the players listed. When Rettalick is absent a team really notices.
I would pick Ian Jones a million times over him. Lineout master and superb athlete.
Actually, I'd pick Brad Thorn over him too. Not flashy, but a much more physical presence.
There's a few locks who played for money that I suppose aren't pro era like Gary Whetton that are much better too. Andy Haden for you oldies.
Please see here (timestamp 1:25.17):
I upvoted because I assume you refer to the lineout steal. I haven't watched the video
Nonu setting up BB at 1:37:39 was a thing of absolute beauty and why he's way ahead of anyone else at 12 in the pro era.
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@booboo DC was the best AB 10 of the pro-era by a country mile but the bench First Five is an interesting call.
I've always thought Mehrts Vs Spencer was a horses for courses debate. Not much between them in ability and impact but different styles and temperament. Both bloody good players, but neither great defenders.
Agree, about BB being a better option than either off the bench. He was a superb finisher in 2015.
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@MN5 said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Could have easily picked Carl Hayman, M.Jones, Z.Brooke, A.Mehrtens, B.Barrett, Umaga, SBW and F.Bunce. Fantastic players all. We really have been had some amazing players in the last 25 years.
If Nonu, Bunce, Smith, Umaga, Mauger and Little all broke their legs simultaneously he might get a mention.
At his best, SBW was outstanding. Look at his performances against Scotland in 2010, the Ireland test in Hamilton in 2012 and the wonderful two offloads before Nonu's try in 2015 final.
The problem was Hansen kept picking him when he was long, long past his best. He shouldn't really have been an AB after 2016.
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@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@MN5 said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Could have easily picked Carl Hayman, M.Jones, Z.Brooke, A.Mehrtens, B.Barrett, Umaga, SBW and F.Bunce. Fantastic players all. We really have been had some amazing players in the last 25 years.
If Nonu, Bunce, Smith, Umaga, Mauger and Little all broke their legs simultaneously he might get a mention.
At his best, SBW was outstanding. Look at his performances against Scotland in 2010, the Ireland test in Hamilton in 2012 and the wonderful two offloads before Nonu's try in 2015 final.
The problem was Hansen kept picking him when he was long, long past his best. He should really have been an AB after 2016.
I was a big SBW fan in league. He could have been great in that game but a combination of injury and leaving to play rugby put an end to that. He was an ok AB, maybe above average. He was not a natural rugby player and in my opinion a way away from being considered a great. He always seemed to be a league player playing union.
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@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@MN5 said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Could have easily picked Carl Hayman, M.Jones, Z.Brooke, A.Mehrtens, B.Barrett, Umaga, SBW and F.Bunce. Fantastic players all. We really have been had some amazing players in the last 25 years.
If Nonu, Bunce, Smith, Umaga, Mauger and Little all broke their legs simultaneously he might get a mention.
At his best, SBW was outstanding. Look at his performances against Scotland in 2010, the Ireland test in Hamilton in 2012 and the wonderful two offloads before Nonu's try in 2015 final.
The problem was Hansen kept picking him when he was long, long past his best. He should really have been an AB after 2016.
Yeah, nah.
I think our best midfield in 2019 would have been SBDubs and JG. But it wasn't picked.
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@Crazy-Horse said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@MN5 said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
@sparky said in AB all time pro-era XXIII:
Could have easily picked Carl Hayman, M.Jones, Z.Brooke, A.Mehrtens, B.Barrett, Umaga, SBW and F.Bunce. Fantastic players all. We really have been had some amazing players in the last 25 years.
If Nonu, Bunce, Smith, Umaga, Mauger and Little all broke their legs simultaneously he might get a mention.
At his best, SBW was outstanding. Look at his performances against Scotland in 2010, the Ireland test in Hamilton in 2012 and the wonderful two offloads before Nonu's try in 2015 final.
The problem was Hansen kept picking him when he was long, long past his best. He should really have been an AB after 2016.
I was a big SBW fan in league. He could have been great in that game but a combination of injury and leaving to play rugby put an end to that. He was an ok AB, maybe above average. He was not a natural rugby player and in my opinion a way away from being considered a great. He always seemed to be a league player playing union.
But this is also true
