Cricket - best ever, trivia etc
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@dogmeat said in Aussie Cricket:
@mn5 said in Aussie Cricket:
the best opening partnership the modern game has seen
Greenidge and Haynes might disagree
not sure 78-83 is 'modern' but they are pretty well accepted as No 1.
Langer/Hayden is right up there, particularly in the modern game though.
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@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
not sure 78-83 is 'modern' but they are pretty well accepted as No 1.
Saw them both bat together in 87
(https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-new-zealand-1986-87-61928/new-zealand-vs-west-indies-2nd-test-63458/full-scorecard)Wisden tells me:
Greenidge retired in 1991, Haynes carried on until 1994 in international cricket, finally packing up in 1997
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@donsteppa said in Aussie Cricket:
@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
not sure 78-83 is 'modern' but they are pretty well accepted as No 1.
Saw them both bat together in 87
(https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-new-zealand-1986-87-61928/new-zealand-vs-west-indies-2nd-test-63458/full-scorecard)Wisden tells me:
Greenidge retired in 1991, Haynes carried on until 1994 in international cricket, finally packing up in 1997
hah! I withdraw and apologise. I googled them, and it seemed to be a short partnership - clearly I missed a decade.
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@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
@dogmeat said in Aussie Cricket:
@mn5 said in Aussie Cricket:
the best opening partnership the modern game has seen
Greenidge and Haynes might disagree
not sure 78-83 is 'modern' but they are pretty well accepted as No 1.
Langer/Hayden is right up there, particularly in the modern game though.
Over 30 years retired doesn’t make someone particularly “modern”
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@mn5 said in Aussie Cricket:
@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
@dogmeat said in Aussie Cricket:
@mn5 said in Aussie Cricket:
the best opening partnership the modern game has seen
Greenidge and Haynes might disagree
not sure 78-83 is 'modern' but they are pretty well accepted as No 1.
Langer/Hayden is right up there, particularly in the modern game though.
Over 30 years retired doesn’t make someone particularly “modern”
Most current cricketers might reckon you're old thinking of Hayden (retired 13 years ago) and Langer (15 years ago) as modern too
Idle stats time; Langer and Haynes did overlap slightly. https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-australia-1992-93-61905/australia-vs-west-indies-4th-test-63593/full-scorecard
I'm sure I remember Hayden from Hadlee's testimonial ODI series in 1990, but it doesn't look like he hit higher honours until a couple of years after that, so I can't see that his international career overlapped with Greenidge.
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@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
@donsteppa said in Aussie Cricket:
@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
not sure 78-83 is 'modern' but they are pretty well accepted as No 1.
Saw them both bat together in 87
(https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-new-zealand-1986-87-61928/new-zealand-vs-west-indies-2nd-test-63458/full-scorecard)Wisden tells me:
Greenidge retired in 1991, Haynes carried on until 1994 in international cricket, finally packing up in 1997
hah! I withdraw and apologise. I googled them, and it seemed to be a short partnership - clearly I missed a decade.
take that apology back find some other anecdotal evidence..this is the fern after all
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@bayimports said in Aussie Cricket:
@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
@donsteppa said in Aussie Cricket:
@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
not sure 78-83 is 'modern' but they are pretty well accepted as No 1.
Saw them both bat together in 87
(https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-new-zealand-1986-87-61928/new-zealand-vs-west-indies-2nd-test-63458/full-scorecard)Wisden tells me:
Greenidge retired in 1991, Haynes carried on until 1994 in international cricket, finally packing up in 1997
hah! I withdraw and apologise. I googled them, and it seemed to be a short partnership - clearly I missed a decade.
take that apology back find some other anecdotal evidence..this is the fern after all
ASTLE AND SPEARMAN WERE UNDERRATED OPENERS
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@nzzp said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@bayimports said in Aussie Cricket:
@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
@donsteppa said in Aussie Cricket:
@nzzp said in Aussie Cricket:
not sure 78-83 is 'modern' but they are pretty well accepted as No 1.
Saw them both bat together in 87
(https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-new-zealand-1986-87-61928/new-zealand-vs-west-indies-2nd-test-63458/full-scorecard)Wisden tells me:
Greenidge retired in 1991, Haynes carried on until 1994 in international cricket, finally packing up in 1997
hah! I withdraw and apologise. I googled them, and it seemed to be a short partnership - clearly I missed a decade.
take that apology back find some other anecdotal evidence..this is the fern after all
ASTLE AND SPEARMAN WERE UNDERRATED OPENERS
ha ha, that made me laugh
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@mn5 You're lucky I didn't nominate Simpson and Lawry then who averaged over 60 as a partnership back in the olden days.
Given cricket has a history of hundreds of years and an international history of nearly 150 I don't think 30-40 years is ancient history.
Personally I think the post Packer years to today are broadly similar in playing style. Limited overs was entrenched. TV coverage was important, bigger bats wee becoming the thing. High backlift etc.
I guess T20 has changed the game but Hayden only played 9 T20I and Langer none so I would say that they pretty much played in the same era as the two Barbadians - even if it wasn't the modern era.
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@mn5 You're lucky I didn't nominate Simpson and Lawry then who averaged over 60 as a partnership back in the olden days.
Given cricket has a history of hundreds of years and an international history of nearly 150 I don't think 30-40 years is ancient history.
Personally I think the post Packer years to today are broadly similar in playing style. Limited overs was entrenched. TV coverage was important, bigger bats wee becoming the thing. High backlift etc.
I guess T20 has changed the game but Hayden only played 9 T20I and Langer none so I would say that they pretty much played in the same era as the two Barbadians - even if it wasn't the modern era.
Yeah Hayden and Langer still seem reasonably recent to me…..I’ll call them “modern”, maybe only just cos otherwise I’d be backing down and I’d hate to look weak on the fern.
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Personally I'd say the best ever test opening partnership was Hobbs and Sutcliffe, but agree that Greenidge and Haynes will always at least be on the short list in the ODI era (as will Hayden and Langer).
Drawing a line somewhere in the 90s makes some sense as ODIs switched quite dramatically somewhere after the WC 92 when NZ and Greatbatch really turned the ODI opening concept on its head, and by the WC 96, that was standard.
That had some impact on scoring rates in tests especially, as 2-3 RPO was replaced by 3-4 RPO, and the widespread adoption of helmets in the 70s-80s also had quite an impact.
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@godder said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Personally I'd say the best ever test opening partnership was Hobbs and Sutcliffe, but agree that Greenidge and Haynes will always at least be on the short list in the ODI era (as will Hayden and Langer).
Drawing a line somewhere in the 90s makes some sense as ODIs switched quite dramatically somewhere after the WC 92 when NZ and Greatbatch really turned the ODI opening concept on its head, and by the WC 96, that was standard.
That had some impact on scoring rates in tests especially, as 2-3 RPO was replaced by 3-4 RPO, and the widespread adoption of helmets in the 70s-80s also had quite an impact.
Agreed. Amazing stats and such an old fashioned dashing looking pair.
Tubby and Slats were decent, so were Sehwag and Gambhir….did Boycott and Gooch play much together ?
Two genuinely class players opening at the same time is actually pretty rare hence I’ll always rate Hayden and Langer damn near the top.
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@nzzp said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@mn5 Sehwag was a walking highlights package. What a player
Very exciting and very effective. Gambhir was a really good foil for him.
But my point stands, where are the other really good opening pairs ?
Another worth mentioning is Cook and Strauss to be fair.
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@mn5 Boycott and Gooch opened together in the late 70's early 80's until the ban for touring South Africa. Although they are both great openers the partnership never really thrived. Gooch and Atherton was more successful and Boycott and Edrich in the 60's.
'Modern' partnerships - Smith and de Villiers is worth a mention.
Further back Wright and Franklin
actually averaged over 50 -
@dogmeat said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@mn5 Boycott and Gooch opened together in the late 70's early 80's until the ban for touring South Africa. Although they are both great openers the partnership never really thrived. Gooch and Atherton was more successful and Boycott and Edrich in the 60's.
'Modern' partnerships - Smith and de Villiers is worth a mention.
Further back Wright and Franklin
actually averaged over 50Yeah I think Atherton was one of those key wickets who was worth more than his average.
Actually from memory Gooch got a lot better after Boycott retired ? Definitely rated the best test batsman at one stage.
I don’t remember AB De Villiers ever opening though ?
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@mn5 You had me really worried.
This from cricinfo
So mainly a middle order but definitely opened. Stats guru never seems to be working but Howsstat vindicates me - sort of. McKenzie and Smith seem the better pair
Geez that shoots my Hayden and Langer theory out of the water. Both brilliant individuals but that stat shows it looked like it was more a case of one going cheaply but the other scoring large with Ponting/Hussey/Waugh/Martyn/Gilly etc. I thought they’d be up in the top five easily.
Greenidge and Haynes are even lower !
Were Hobbs and Sutcliffe basically the only decent England batsmen of their era ? Looks that way……
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@mn5 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Were Hobbs and Sutcliffe basically the only decent England batsmen of their era ?
Nope When you finally separated the openers out would stroll Wall Hammond with a test average of just under 60. It was a golden age for England . Unfortunately for them it was the same for Oz
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@mn5 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Were Hobbs and Sutcliffe basically the only decent England batsmen of their era ?
Nope When you finally separated the openers out would stroll Wall Hammond with a test average of just under 60. It was a golden age for England . Unfortunately for them it was the same for Oz
Yeah their careers did crossover a bit, I always thought he was a bit later.
