Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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@taniwharugby said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@canefan hopefully she has been released from Quarantine!
She's showing symptoms of illness and is in self Isolation
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@ACT-Crusader said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@bayimports said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
of course he is, didnt you see my if I was Ian Foster team..
Perhaps the second post was a little saucy
Is that so?
Then:
The good: getting Jordan a run and Ioane out there.
The bad: Still picking pairs of players they like and not making the tough calls.
If Aonae gets injured (or taken off when SB does something stupid), we’ll be very light and athletic in the loosies with a tired Cane and a tired Savea. Yuck.
The starting backline still sucks a bit and no issues have been addressed.
We’ll win, and win well, due to passion etc. and these problems will seemingly disappear, but they’ll still be the key weaknesses of the team. Unaddressed.
Let’s hope that next year the younger players are seen to be that much more experienced that they cant get away with it.
We’ll need to be better to win and not because of some mythical thing called passion. So that’s a good start if anything.
My concern is that 'passion' will be manifested in stronger attendance to preparation, stronger effort in contact, and a stronger effort on defense.
So, we will be better, and this will allow some turnovers to be gained (i.e., more opportunities), perhaps some turnovers not be given (i.e., less chance for them to score more than 20 points which seems to be the magic number for beating us), and some space to be generated on the margins (which Barrett, Clarke, and Jordan may exploit), and we'll end up getting a lot more points than our actual strategy probably should generate absent this absolute pinpoint preparation that is dependent on us taking advantage of other team's mistakes to generate points.
All of which may the make it seem like we have turned a corner, until we realize that this is Argentina, a team we should put away without needing to have WC final-esque preparation. I know that's a rude thing to say about the Pumas, but they are not close to the class of England. This AB team would likely get pumped by England right now.
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@mariner4life
Retallick is 29, a World Rugby Player of the Year and as far as I know, not crocked.If we were most other countries he would likely be playing for us now. Another question is, is losing a world class player for 2 years the only viable solution for a situation like his?
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@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I know that's a rude thing to say about the Pumas, but they are not close to the class of England.
They beat the ABs by 10 point in an away game, then drew with Australia in Australia. A week apart after not playing rugby for 400 or so days.
Has England done that? -
@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
We’ll win, and win well, due to passion etc. and these problems will seemingly disappear, but they’ll still be the key weaknesses of the team. Unaddressed.
Think leadership and game management by the senior players is an issue and has been for some time for some reason. Hope they have sat down and thrashed that out after the last game .
Don't expect an immediate fix though, but hopefully a change for the better. Might be worthwhile keeping an eye out for who's doing the talking on the field alongside Cane.
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@akan004 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
The refusal to drop JB is mind boggling.
It's Foster's lack of explanation or rationale for him at 14 which is equally mind-boggling.
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@mofitzy_ said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life
Retallick is 29, a World Rugby Player of the Year and as far as I know, not crocked.If we were most other countries he would likely be playing for us now. Another question is, is losing a world class player for 2 years the only viable solution for a situation like his?
The option with Retallick is losing him permanently.
So no, not ideal -- but definitely better than the alternatives NZR have. Plus, it should push his career out - a couple of years out to refresh and come back firing for the 2023 RWC
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@akan004 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
The refusal to drop JB is mind boggling.
It's Foster's lack of explanation or rationale for him at 14 which is equally mind-boggling.
or even trying to play to his strengths. Honestly, they play like it's someone fast out there, not a big aerial kicking unit.
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Given a choice at 14 of Jordan/Reece/Roane/Jordie, why would anyone choose the last?
Reece adds elusiveness and not much less safe. Roane a thoroughbred, but needs to get back to basics.
Jordie much better at 15. Could be argument for BB to start at 10 and bring Richie on at 50 as things freed up, but Jordie at 14 leaves me cold.
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@pakman said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Jordie at 14 leaves me cold.
Well, ther'es an argument that you can isolate their winger, and put up aerial bombs to contest.
Except that's nothing like how we are playing (or probalby want to play)
then there's an argument he's there for his kicking, with a howitzer of a boot. Except he's not kicking anywhere, everywhere.
and I suppose you could argue that he's got a low error rate. Except he doesn't.
eh, I dunno. Maybe he trains well
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@nzzp
I agree it was probably the best option, and fingers crossed he comes back as good or better. Just pointing out that one of our best players potentially in his prime is only playing Japanese rugby and it's like he never existed. If he was tearing up in France or England then there would a lot more noise. -
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@nzzp said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@pakman said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Jordie at 14 leaves me cold.
Well, ther'es an argument that you can isolate their winger, and put up aerial bombs to contest.
Except that's nothing like how we are playing (or probalby want to play)
then there's an argument he's there for his kicking, with a howitzer of a boot. Except he's not kicking anywhere, everywhere.
and I suppose you could argue that he's got a low error rate. Except he doesn't.
eh, I dunno. Maybe he trains well
The Argies are a one trick pony at the moment and both NZ and Oz are getting sucked into their trick.
Why we aren't kicking to corners with fast wingers chasing is beyond me. It's not like we have to retrain a pattern. It is a basic rugby tactic.
Start doing that and errors will come. It will also make at least two of their backs hang back deeper which puts pressure on their other backs to stop us getting the ball wide. That leads to offside penalties.
Jordie just doen't fit this plan at all. -
@taniwharugby said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Often they would, but we'd change shit up again and pull away...now, it seems we let everyone catch up, a couple have crept ahead while we are still cruising along in 3rd, seemingly unsure how to get into 4th.
Keep going like this and you'll reach 4th in no time...
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@NTA said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@taniwharugby said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Often they would, but we'd change shit up again and pull away...now, it seems we let everyone catch up, a couple have crept ahead while we are still cruising along in 3rd, seemingly unsure how to get into 4th.
Keep going like this and you'll reach 4th in no time...
You'd get vertigo that high up....
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@Crucial said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Jordie just doen't fit this plan at all.
There's a plan?
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These rankings need an overhaul anyway. They have been running for long enough that the issues and imbalances have shown themselves.
Once a team gets to the top (as we have in past years) they only need to ensure that they don't lose heavily to the teams ranked 2 and sometimes 3 and they will stay there (a RWC loss counts as heavy). To climb back to being in contention to inflict a heavy loss on the top ranked you have to play the teams above you as you will get SFA points added to your total by beating those below you.
The reality of the current situation gets too absorbed into the long term tiny increments. For example the ABs could (in theory) inflict a complete thrashing by 40 points on Argentina (a team that has been performing against and beating teams above it), yet pick up no ranking points at all.
This isn't sour grapes because of where we have put ourselves. I could see this same situation for other teams when we were at the top. It takes the RWC double points to change anything.
