Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years
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@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@dogmeat cheers,
For me, the more I think about it, it's the 'who won us a game we wouldn't otherwise, adn did it consistently'
So, Carter and McCaw are easily there. Arguably Aaron Smith - his passing is nek level, and I don't think we have the success over the last 6 years without him.
Cully and Jonah by that measurement are weaker. They are incredible with the highlight reels - but their ability to pull out a try from nowhere in a tight game is limited. Jeff Wilson may be in the chat, much as it pains me to say it.
Are you serious? Both scored and set up tries that we had no right to score otherwise, and did so in tight games. I recall one particular instance in BA against the Argies where we were facing our first ever loss and totally against the run of play Jonah takes things on single handed from our 22, fending, busting, swerving and basically leading us back into the game. I can never find it on highlights videos as the try eventuated a few phases later and was unspectacular in itself
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@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Are you serious?
Yep, just musing. Limited - but absolutely not nonexistent. It's tough - kind of like those moments in Tests where a dominant tackle or turnover changes the momentum... or a defensive lapse lets the opposition get easy metres.
I guess I was comparing them to something like Carter in 2015 Semi and Final singlehandedly taking the clutch moment to swing us those games. It's fresh, but the Whitelock steal on the Bokke in 15SF was up there too, in terms of 'moments'.
post more when I don't have work to do
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@dogmeat said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.
The criteria is from Lions 71 Tour on. You cannot pick Meads on that basis. He played four tests, captained poorly (not his forte) to our only series defeat against the Lions and was dropped.
@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
In this thread: internet users tend to be under the age of 60
ahem
McCaw and Carter for me are certs. Probably Fitzy although I think his captaincy skills are well over-rated, probably Lomu because of his impact on the game. 5th one I have to ponder. I can make an argument for most of the names put forward (some of them are in jest surely) but I can also make an argument against the same players.
Just to clarify the criteria for selection of last 50 years is based from that tour onwards? Not anyone whose total career crossed into that? Therefore you're suggesting the last couple of games Pinetree played weren't up to his previous standards? If that is the case, I can live with that, dismissing him otherwise tends to go against most historians.
That gives me one more to pick, don't think it would be Lomu, although impact cannot be denied and truly a global superstar, the duration of that impact was small at best. Counter argument is that the off field contribution still going.
Who is number 5 I am not sure
@dogmeat Of players not mentioned that are inducted into world rugby hall of fame, and I am not even near to 60, but how does Ian Kirkpatrick stack up?, played well into the 1970s
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@bayimports I just did it based on players I’ve seen play.
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@voodoo said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Wrong thread for it, but I can't remember where the discussion of our best 9's was. But I'm intrigued by the lack of mention of David Kirk anywhere. Now I didn't really start watching rugby until 1990, so have no memory of him playing, other than footage of him lifting the trophy in 87.
Where do you guys have him in the ranking of our 9's throughout history?
Not high really.
Was kind of limited as a passer and not helluva robust.
Plenty better.
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@Chris-B said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.
The criteria is from Lions 71 Tour on. You cannot pick Meads on that basis. He played four tests, captained poorly (not his forte) to our only series defeat against the Lions and was dropped.
Actually, my intention was that anyone who played in those tests can be considered for the entirety of their careers.
Fair enough. I had the same thought as @dogmeat.
Then leaving out Meads is a cardinal sin, and neglecting Sir Brian will probably book you a few years in Hades as well.
My revised list:
McCaw
Meads
Fitzy
Jonah
Lochore -
@booboo said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Chris-B said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.
The criteria is from Lions 71 Tour on. You cannot pick Meads on that basis. He played four tests, captained poorly (not his forte) to our only series defeat against the Lions and was dropped.
Actually, my intention was that anyone who played in those tests can be considered for the entirety of their careers.
Fair enough. I had the same thought as @dogmeat.
Then leaving out Meads is a cardinal sin, and neglecting Sir Brian will probably book you a few years in Hades as well.
My revised list:
McCaw
Meads
Fitzy
Jonah
LochoreThe criteria is unfortunate. Two AB greats had their swan songs just within the period given.
I left them out as to me they would be part of the 100 year greatest or 'greatest between 1920 and 1970' discussions (and be the first on the list) -
The call for no Jonah is extraordinary. The bloke changed the game. Would be the left wing in nearly everybody world wide's All Time XV. Was our stand out player at two world cups. Did shit no one had ever done before, or really has done since.
Every big winger is "the next Jonah". The guy is a phenom. Definitely in.
As for my "not sure about Carter" thing. I guess i was clouded by 2007, and 2011. And a sabbatical. But the guy was a freak. And he looked like that too. So not fair.
The one that kills me is Jeff Wilson is my favourite player ever and i am not even considering him.
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@mariner4life and he played ODIs for the BCs, and not just a bit player. Maybe the last true dual international?
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@booboo said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Chris-B said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.
The criteria is from Lions 71 Tour on. You cannot pick Meads on that basis. He played four tests, captained poorly (not his forte) to our only series defeat against the Lions and was dropped.
Actually, my intention was that anyone who played in those tests can be considered for the entirety of their careers.
Fair enough. I had the same thought as @dogmeat.
Then leaving out Meads is a cardinal sin, and neglecting Sir Brian will probably book you a few years in Hades as well.
My revised list:
McCaw
Meads
Fitzy
Jonah
LochoreI was thinking the same thing, but if that is the criteria, then:
McCaw
Meads
Lochore
Jonah
Carter -
@mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
The call for no Jonah is extraordinary. The bloke changed the game. Would be the left wing in nearly everybody world wide's All Time XV. Was our stand out player at two world cups. Did shit no one had ever done before, or really has done since.
Joeli was pretty good at it.
Every big winger is "the next Jonah". The guy is a phenom. Definitely in.
True, but there's limited opportunities to play against 1995 era Englishmen these days.
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@antipodean said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Lomu was rugby's first global super star. Surely in.
First global superstar, certainly. Apart from 1995 RWC and 99 against France I'm not sure he did enough consistently to be among the top five. If only he hadn't had got sick.
Fitzy makes the list because there's been no better captain. And that's high praise considering the august nature of that club.
GOAT, obviously.
DC because there's been no more complete five-eighth.
I have to think harder about the remaining two.
Meads, obviously.
Lochore. Based on footage and reports. And if nothing else, leaving a note.
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@antipodean said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
And if nothing else, leaving a note.
Nice.
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@broughie said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial Probably because he was just on the end of the chain scoring try’s. Never saw him run over anyone, tackle with any amount of venom or do something amazing. Just fast and hence meh.
Are we back to talking Dougie?
I never said he was in contention for the final list, just that he never seems to get mentioned in wider discussions despite holding a record that many good players have failed to match.
He did a bit more than catch the ball, run and fall over. I seem to remember some very skilled chip and re-gathers for example. Also had a very consistent strike rate. Wasn't too many games where he didn't score (whereas others have their records boosted by multiple scores in one game against minnows)
Anyway, probably a discussion for another time, -
@Crucial being in the right place at the right time to take the last pass, no matter what part of the field, is a massively underrated outside back skill. Dougie was the fucking master.
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@mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial being in the right place at the right time to take the last pass, no matter what part of the field, is a massively underrated outside back skill. Dougie was the fucking master.
The Dougster was so good he got rested for the Quarter against France 2007. Remember - we played Sivi and Roks (from memory), with the expectation that he'd be played in the Semi. Arrogance much?
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@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Arrogance much?
If i am fair, i was looking ahead to the semi final as well.
