When should Foster go?
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@DMX 2 losses and a draw out of 5 is not a great AB record.
Against a weakened Wallabies with a new coach and Argentina playing away from home it is atrocious.
Plus throw in a lost RWC, loss to Ireland... etc.. etc.. while he was in the coaching setup.They paid big bucks to get the team performing. You won't get two years as a corporate exec with a record like this. And the ABs are a nation-sized business.
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@Snowy said in When should Foster go?:
@DMX said in When should Foster go?:
@nostrildamus said in When should Foster go?:
@DMX said in When should Foster go?:
what kind of message are you sending to the next coaches.
That they need to win matches? That being selected to be head coach should be based on merit, and retained based on performance?
2 losses and your fired? I think any new coach will say first year I need to build , even Henry had that.
Two losses and a draw (as good as a loss - someone even mentioned that we "lost" the Lions series - we drew). So just two wins from 5 might be a better way to put it. With players that know how to win. Throw in his history of failure with the Chiefs, the lack of enthusiasm from both him and the players, a lack of obvious game plan (although @bones post above might contain one, as he said it isn't working - yet anyway). I guess the way they are playing doesn't inspire confidence in the leadership / management.
As a Blues supporter, I have been through this from corporate structure (management personnel) to the appointment of coaches. It can be turned around quite quickly with the right people.
True 2.5 losses not great ( though you could argue Ozzie loss a dead rubber ) but NZR already chose him so I don't think you can fire him after a year based on his qualifications when they were good enough when they hired him. Fozzie wouldn't have been my choice either but think it reflects even worse on NZR to fire him a year in. 3rd loss might change the calculus though.
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@nostrildamus said in When should Foster go?:
@DMX 2 losses and a draw out of 5 is not a great AB record.
Against a weakened Wallabies with a new coach and Argentina playing away from home it is atrocious.
Plus throw in a lost RWC, loss to Ireland... etc.. etc.. while he was in the coaching setup.They paid big bucks to get the team performing. You won't get two years as a corporate exec with a record like this. And the ABs are a nation-sized business.
So the Argies should never be able to play well enough to be beat ABs?
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@nostrildamus said in When should Foster go?:
@DMX 2 losses and a draw out of 5 is not a great AB record.
Against a weakened Wallabies with a new coach and Argentina playing away from home it is atrocious.
Plus throw in a lost RWC, loss to Ireland... etc.. etc.. while he was in the coaching setup.They paid big bucks to get the team performing. You won't get two years as a corporate exec with a record like this. And the ABs are a nation-sized business.
Not true. Plenty of execs survive periods of falling share prices, shareholder revolts, massive profit downgrades, poor performance and even allegations of mismanagement!
I think most believed this was going to be a rollercoaster and the results certainly reflect that. Difficult first outing and then bounce back with a 20 point win the following week. Then another massive win followed by a loss.
Now another loss and all of a sudden we have IMO the most important test of the year for a bunch of reasons coming up.
Bring it on.
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That isn't my point and you know it.
So I want to build a strong trabeated pentagon-shaped house that will last longer than a season. But I don't trust the bricklayer: bad reputation, the foundations are weakening, basic techniques are evaporating, the core is sagging, the stones in the corbelling are placed out of position and nowhere near tight, and the scaffolding is there but used far too late (while decent piping is left off-site) but the brick columns!
The first column was fifty-fifty, the second holds and strengthens in the last 20 minutes; the third is strong; the fourth crumbles, shattering records; the fifth is nowhere near code and is a structural nightmare.
Now you drive up in your bright yellow proton jumbuck 1.5 litre 126nm torque of heaving self-righteousness and think I have a problem with just that last column?!
It is not just the failure of the last column but the entire edifice is not built like a brick shithouse, it actually is just a brick shithouse.
40% structural failure 20% white knuckle purgatory: I don't fancy looking forward to the next season when the weather gets worse.If he was blooding new players and bedding new strategies I might be more forgiving.
But he has been there since 2012 and the slide in skills, decision-making, tactics, selection and rotation judgement is increasing! The bricks are increasingly lower and lower quality! -
@ACT-Crusader cynic!
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Will be interesting to see how the coaches react. A whole new approach? New team selections? Back to the same old, same old? One thing about Henry and co. they learnt from their mistakes and there were plenty! 2007, 2009 vs Bok etc. The public saw and understood this I think.
If Foster battens down and does the same old tried things and it doesn't produce a good result, I think the public will go mad! -
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in When should Foster go?:
Will be interesting to see how the coaches react. A whole new approach? New team selections? Back to the same old, same old? One thing about Henry and co. they learnt from their mistakes and there were plenty! 2007, 2009 vs Bok etc. The public saw and understood this I think.
If Foster battens down and does the same old tried things and it doesn't produce a good result, I think the public will go mad!They did change after 07, but it wasn't until the next year we saw the changes. I think we'll see minor tweaks, but same shit. Next year's games will see changes, hopefully under a new coach but sadly unlikely. Those changes probably won't be good enough, same changes we were supposed to see after lions etc. Ineffective changes
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@pukunui said in When should Foster go?:
@DMX said in When should Foster go?:
@nostrildamus said in When should Foster go?:
@DMX said in When should Foster go?:
what kind of message are you sending to the next coaches.
That they need to win matches? That being selected to be head coach should be based on merit, and retained based on performance?
2 losses and your fired? I think any new coach will say first year I need to build , even Henry had that.
I don’t think you get any grace period when you are the “continuity” pick do you? Isn’t that the point?
If he wants credit from the last 8 years then there should be no need for a transition period of shit performances.
If instead there were problems he had identified over the last few years and is now trying to fix them, then what the fuck has he been doing the last few years as an assistant? I don’t buy that he would have been trying to fix things but was getting overruled by Hansen. Hansen endorsed him ages ago.
Pretty sure that NZ rugby will give him the second year of his contract, but he will need to do a fucking sight better than this first year, or he needs to be given the boot.
I agree - if you're the continuity pick it's not like you're coaching someone else's team.
And the harsh reality for Fozzie is that he's not really missing too many big players from their first choice team from last year - by my count Retallick, Read and Bridge (time for the Bring Back Bridge campaign?!
).OK - Retallick is a big loss, but he was some distance from his best at RWC2019.
Most people seemed to think Read was at the end of the road (but, maybe we're missing him more than we thought).
And most people think George has been covered adequately on the left wing.
We've lost Ben Smith, Crotty, SBW and Matt Todd from our RWC squad - but, none of those guys had big roles in a tournament, where we beat the eventual champions, put Ireland and Wales to the sword, and were well beaten, but not uncompetitive against England.
These last couple of performances have not been close to that quality - they've been very poor and dismal results.
So, are we suffering a RWC hangover?
Or is the coaching at fault? Do the players not have faith in the coaching team, or are they just uninspiring?
Foster needs to find some answers or he needs to be gone.
He currently has the second worst AB coaching record - equal with Vodanovic at 40% winning record.
If you compare him with Mitch - who many consider a failure - Mitch had 23 wins, 1 draw and 4 losses. Fozzie needs 21 wins with just 2 losses from here onwards to match Mitch.
91% from here, Fozzie.
You've burned up most of your credits!
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@Chris-B said in When should Foster go?:
(but, maybe we're missing him more than we thought
we might not be if we did something crazy like playing a #8 at #8
just sayin'...
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@Chris-B said in When should Foster go?:
He currently has the second worst AB coaching record - equal with Vodanovic at 40% winning record.
and when was that, the 40's or so?
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@mariner4life You get no arguments from me about playing two 7s in the loose forwards!
Whoever made the excellent post about him fitting pairs of players into the team nailed it.
He's tried to pick safely and it's bitten him on the arse and backed him into a corner.
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@taniwharugby said in When should Foster go?:
@Chris-B said in When should Foster go?:
He currently has the second worst AB coaching record - equal with Vodanovic at 40% winning record.
and when was that, the 40's or so?
1970 and 1971 - vs the Boks and B&I Lions. Two quality teams.
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@Chris-B said in When should Foster go?:
who many consider a failure
i don't.
If only for that glorious 3 week period in 2003 where we stuck 50 past the Boks and the Wallabies on their turf, and then came home to reclaim the Bledisloe.
Mitch cops too much shit. his only problem was picking too many "technically good" Crusader forwards.
Cullen was cooked, suck it up Nepia
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@mariner4life you forgot to put @Nepia
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@taniwharugby said in When should Foster go?:
@mariner4life you forgot to put @Nepia
yeah shit
to be honest i just assumed he had some sort of bat signal that triggered when someone talked shit like that.
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@mariner4life Reading Mitch's book he came across as pretty oddball, so he might have had a few more problems than just selections.
But, results-wise he has copped an unfair amount of shit - and when he was in the job, the media (Deaker, Golightly et al) absolutely went for the jugular.
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@Chris-B said in When should Foster go?:
@mariner4life Reading Mitch's book he came across as pretty oddball, so he might have had a few more problems than just selections.
But, results-wise he has copped an unfair amount of shit - and when he was in the job, the media (Deaker, Golightly et al) absolutely went for the jugular.
i think his history proves that he comes in, has success, and then very quickly wears out his welcome.
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@Chris-B said in When should Foster go?:
Deaker, Golightly
a couple of giant fluffybunnies if ever there was some
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@mariner4life said in When should Foster go?:
@taniwharugby said in When should Foster go?:
@mariner4life you forgot to put @Nepia
yeah shit
to be honest i just assumed he had some sort of bat signal that triggered when someone talked shit like that.
Yep, the shit coach signal - although it doesn’t differentiate between Mitch, the Hammettuer or Philpott.
But, at any rate Cullen was only one of Mitch’s many issues!
