Pasifika SR team
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@chris Japan have no need or motivation I can see to be involved as a minor partner in SR given they are hugely developing their local pro league?? Sunwolves was never their big priority.
For many reasons I'm sure they'd now rather simply develop locally under their commercial control and hire in coaching and player talent including from NZ and Oz as is happening more and more... which we all can see I'm sure?
Long term (think in 10 max 20 years) they're a huge commercial threat to SR's existence and current Oz/NZ control. I'm not sure how Australian Pro rugby can fend that off at all levels. NZ may be able to via more and more "sabbaticals" but ultimately money talks and Japan is a huge economy with clubs supported or built around multi national companies.
Possible SR model downstream might be local leagues in Japan, NZ, Australia with no crossover but feeding into a Super League like soccer in Europe. Would suit Australia too imho. NZ certainly less so!
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@landp i think a full partner including playing in the RC but starting with one or two super teams is more like it, i think they would commit to something like that
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@kiwiwomble said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp i think a full partner including playing in the RC but starting with one or two teams is more like it, i think they would commit to something like that
Yeah I believe that’s were we are headed.
NZ has made it clear there is a big financial benefit to getting close to Japan.
Japan has also signalled they would like some sort of club involvement with SR. -
@kiwiwomble I don't think they would. What happens with those two teams? are they removed from their domestic comp? Or do they have to play SR concurrently.
The Japanese league is a corporate pissing contest. They don't give a fuck about SR.
Not to mention the 10 hour flight time.
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@chris said in Pasifika SR team:
@kiwiwomble said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp i think a full partner including playing in the RC but starting with one or two teams is more like it, i think they would commit to something like that
Yeah I believe that’s were we are headed.
NZ has made it clear there is a big financial benefit to getting close to Japan.
Japan has also signalled they would like some sort of club involvement with SR.The key point of getting some proper Japanese teams in SR, not a made up entity like the SW, is it being part for the RC. That's the carrot that will mean Japan Rugby would seriously engage with SR. Without that, it'll just be more Sunwolves type shit who got no money from JRU
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@derpus said in Pasifika SR team:
@kiwiwomble I don't think they would. What happens with those two teams? are they removed from their domestic comp? Or do they have to play SR concurrently.
The Japanese league is a corporate pissing contest. They don't give a fuck about SR.
Not to mention the 10 hour flight time.
i would have thought two franchises picked from the domestic comp like NZ or a champions league approach of the top two teams play super rugby the next year would be pretty simple...hell it might get them throwing even more money at rugby if there was extra distance to be achieved in the pissing contest by playing in super rugby
10 hours flight but with a small time difference is a hell of a lot easier than what we achieved with RSA for the last 25 years, overnight flight, sorted
Ive done an over night flight to japan before and skied the afternoon we landed, and im not a professional sportsman with all the support they're given
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@kiwiwomble a champions cup style format is the only thing i see working. I like it.
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@kiwiwomble Possible! You'd certainly need to offer something like Japan gaining full partnership in the RC to engage them at a lower level for an SR structure. They are or soon will be a powerhouse financially.
I'm not at all sure the relationship between Japan Rugby and the clubs though?
We may be assuming it's all central like NZ or Ireland or Wales but reality may be a lot more like England or France in which case... well good luck negotiating in that case.
Great and big idea though, certainly the type of thinking needed.
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@machpants said in Pasifika SR team:
@chris said in Pasifika SR team:
@kiwiwomble said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp i think a full partner including playing in the RC but starting with one or two teams is more like it, i think they would commit to something like that
Yeah I believe that’s were we are headed.
NZ has made it clear there is a big financial benefit to getting close to Japan.
Japan has also signalled they would like some sort of club involvement with SR.The key point of getting some proper Japanese teams in SR, not a made up entity like the SW, is it being part for the RC. That's the carrot that will mean Japan Rugby would seriously engage with SR. Without that, it'll just be more Sunwolves type shit who got no money from JRU
Yep totally agree RC first
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@derpus said in Pasifika SR team:
@kiwiwomble a champions cup style format is the only thing i see working. I like it.
Agreed.
Local competitions, no crossover
Local final and local champions
Then a Champions Cup formatHealthier for Australian rugby given its current state imo
Fits a Japanese club model
Won't suit NZR at all, right? Bunch of All Blacks doing nothing for X weeks... 😂😂But yes, it's the best overall concept that's practical assuming seasons are aligned to fit.
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@landp i was meaning the winner of the japanese domestic comp plays a full super rugby season the next year, champions league rather than champions cup, you play for the right to play super rugby each year
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@kiwiwomble said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp i was meaning the winner of the japanese domestic comp plays a full super rugby season the next year, champions league rather than champions cup, you play for the right to play super rugby each year
The proposed new competition in Japan is 12 teams and fully professional (right now, it is mixed like NPC), so it would be relatively easy to have a cross-border Champions-league style competition with all 24 teams, split according to finishing order in their relevant competitions (Top 6 go to Pacific Club team Championship, bottom six go to Pacific Club team Cup).
More details here.
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@gt12 said in Pasifika SR team:
@kiwiwomble said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp i was meaning the winner of the japanese domestic comp plays a full super rugby season the next year, champions league rather than champions cup, you play for the right to play super rugby each year
The proposed new competition in Japan is 12 teams and fully professional (right now, it is mixed like NPC), so it would be relatively easy to have a cross-border Champions-league style competition with all 24 teams, split according to finishing order in their relevant competitions (Top 6 go to Pacific Club team Championship, bottom six go to Pacific Club team Cup).
More details here.
From the link:
In addition to the regular home and away conference matches, there will be inter-conference matches in which teams will play all six teams outside their conference once. As such, each Division One team will play 10 conference matches and six inter-conference matches, for a total of 16 matches in the regular season.Seems their administrators possess a lot more common sense than those in charge of SR.
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@labcat said in Pasifika SR team:
Seems their administrators possess a lot more common sense than those in charge of SR.
Isn't that nearly identical to what SR ran previously?
Play your own conference twice and outside of your conference once?
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@kiwimurph said in Pasifika SR team:
@labcat said in Pasifika SR team:
Seems their administrators possess a lot more common sense than those in charge of SR.
Isn't that nearly identical to what SR ran previously?
Play your own conference twice and outside of your conference once?
No, in SR we were playing 4 SA and 4 Australian teams. I think the SA team that won made the final without playing Crusaders at all?
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@labcat said in Pasifika SR team:
@gt12 said in Pasifika SR team:
@kiwiwomble said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp i was meaning the winner of the japanese domestic comp plays a full super rugby season the next year, champions league rather than champions cup, you play for the right to play super rugby each year
The proposed new competition in Japan is 12 teams and fully professional (right now, it is mixed like NPC), so it would be relatively easy to have a cross-border Champions-league style competition with all 24 teams, split according to finishing order in their relevant competitions (Top 6 go to Pacific Club team Championship, bottom six go to Pacific Club team Cup).
More details here.
From the link:
In addition to the regular home and away conference matches, there will be inter-conference matches in which teams will play all six teams outside their conference once. As such, each Division One team will play 10 conference matches and six inter-conference matches, for a total of 16 matches in the regular season.Seems their administrators possess a lot more common sense than those in charge of SR.
That's exactly the same style proposed by Australia and rejected by NZ.
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@labcat said in Pasifika SR team:
@kiwimurph said in Pasifika SR team:
@labcat said in Pasifika SR team:
Seems their administrators possess a lot more common sense than those in charge of SR.
Isn't that nearly identical to what SR ran previously?
Play your own conference twice and outside of your conference once?
No, in SR we were playing 4 SA and 4 Australian teams. I think the SA team that won made the final without playing Crusaders at all?
Actually they didn't win the competition, but the Lions hosted the final without playing Crusaders during the regular season:
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@gt12 said in Pasifika SR team:
@labcat said in Pasifika SR team:
@gt12 said in Pasifika SR team:
@kiwiwomble said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp i was meaning the winner of the japanese domestic comp plays a full super rugby season the next year, champions league rather than champions cup, you play for the right to play super rugby each year
The proposed new competition in Japan is 12 teams and fully professional (right now, it is mixed like NPC), so it would be relatively easy to have a cross-border Champions-league style competition with all 24 teams, split according to finishing order in their relevant competitions (Top 6 go to Pacific Club team Championship, bottom six go to Pacific Club team Cup).
More details here.
From the link:
In addition to the regular home and away conference matches, there will be inter-conference matches in which teams will play all six teams outside their conference once. As such, each Division One team will play 10 conference matches and six inter-conference matches, for a total of 16 matches in the regular season.Seems their administrators possess a lot more common sense than those in charge of SR.
That's exactly the same style proposed by Australia and rejected by NZ.
I would have preferred that format even if it supposedly gives the Australian teams an advantage. It's better than this "lets play three extra games because 11 is not enough" format.
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@kiwiwomble said in Pasifika SR team:
@landp i was meaning the winner of the japanese domestic comp plays a full super rugby season the next year, champions league rather than champions cup, you play for the right to play super rugby each year
With or without their 3 All Blacks who were "on sabbatical" for the Japan champion that year lol?
I enjoy SR and watched most of Aoteroa and some of the aussie games but I feel the whole concept is too contrived unless the teams are more competitive than where's its heading.
Moana Pacifica and Drua won't be competitive. Only 1-2 Australian teams are likely to be. A Japanese club side imho won't be (vs NZ franchises as they now exist) for a very long time.
Probably I'm getting old, no blame attached but it's feeling more and more like SR is just a commercial vehicle and a structure to prop up the ABs rather than a genuine sporting contest. I'll... mainly watch the NZ derbies tbh
Needs some serious rebalancing and give-and-take to make it work for all parties in a way that can survive for long I feel.
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Bit off topic from the original post but can't find a Moana Pasifika 2022 so posting here. Team will be pretty understrength next year as license came through too late to sign most overseas players. They're going after Ardie as he still hasn't signed anywhere for next year. Nonu, Lealifano & Kepu main signings otherwise most will come from those who played Samoa/Tonga test matches this year. They won't be playing end of year tour as no MIQ spots, will train together instead. Aaron Mauger Head Coach, Filo Tiatia Forwards, Pauliasi Manu Scrum, Paul Downes S&C, cant remember backs sorry.
2017 Super Rugby season - Wikipedia
