Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18
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@Stargazer said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
wow. that's significant.
Even the reduced Sam Whitelock is miles better than the alternatives
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I think Ioane looks a good prospect personally. He has a beautiful passing game and looks good when taking the line on. Probably the most natural 10 in the country. Mo'unga's more off the cuff, tends to play whats infront of him. He has a more touch rugby style to him which can look brilliant especially against staggered defense lines that fall out of shape, but he'll have a harder time of things on the big stage when sides don't fall out of shape defensively. Good luck to Mo'unga I say, he needs to start delivering on this stage as he's been poor so far at test level.
I hope to see more of Ioane at this level tbh. I think his style is suited to test rugby if given a decent chance.
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@African-Monkey said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
I think Ioane looks a good prospect personally. He has a beautiful passing game and looks good when taking the line on. Probably the most natural 10 in the country. Mo'unga's more off the cuff, tends to play whats infront of him. He has a more touch rugby style to him which can look brilliant especially against staggered defense lines that fall out of shape, but he'll have a harder time of things on the big stage when sides don't fall out of shape defensively. Good luck to Mo'unga I say, he needs to start delivering on this stage as he's been poor so far at test level.
I hope to see more of Ioane at this level tbh. I think his style is suited to test rugby if given a decent chance.
don't disagree with any of that, however...
The upside to Mo'unga is, if he develops the passing/kicking/game management to compliment those attacking instincts and skills, that is a way better prospect. It's easier to go that way than have basics and develop the off-the-cuff stuff, which i feel comes naturally, or you don't ever have it.
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Kirwan said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@antipodean said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@African-Monkey said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
Oh yay Mo'unga to get another start at 10......
Someone needs to get experience. We don't want a situation where we only have one five-eighth.
do we have that now?
Yes, he has an injured archilles.
i thought we all decided he was no more than okay at 10? or are we just happy to have that level of output now?
Can't pick 2005 Dan Carter, so just have to pick the best we have and that's BB.
RM has a long way to go to get to BB's standard. And we need to start developing other options to help RM improve and give us a backup plan if this is his ceiling.
Reminds me of the Mannix/Bachop days. No stand out options, waiting for a Merhts to appear on the horizon.
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@mariner4life No doubt, however, that is a massive IF. Some guys can develop the required skills on the go (Nonu springs to mind) and I hope Mo'unga can for the benefit of the national side, but my concern is, is that he hasn't had to change a hell of a lot at Super Rugby due to his side being so successful and has only really had to play in the one style,which hasn't transferred to test level. I hope that he has started to realise that other aspects of his game need to develop which I'm sure he has if he is to succeed at this level, otherwise I can't see him lasting that long if he thinks he can just transfer the same stuff from Super level to Test level.
Im expecting big things from him at Eden Park or whatever its called now, he certainly needs a big test.
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People have selective memories. Mo'unga has played several good tests. Remember that test in Pretoria in 2018 when BB started at 10? BB had a poor game, and the game lifted when Mo'unga came on (and BB shifted to fullback). We narrowly won that game.
There are more examples of tests in which he played well.IMO the main problem are the lack of an answer to the rush defence and our pack just not functioning the way it used to. I also think there's a direct relationship between the game plan and how players perform. Our current game plan doesn't work. The captain and senior players must also have the courage to deviate from that plan mid-game if it doesn't work (Mo'unga isn't a senior player).
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@Stargazer I did make mention in a previous thread that Mo'unga's best performance in Black was that test which was, you guessed it, off the bench. I still think that's where he's best suited atm but realise at the same time that he'll be starting which is a whole new ball game. Barrett had to wait a long time before getting a decent crack at 10 as well and I feel that Mo'unga is in the same situation.
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@antipodean $4.85 odds looking good?
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@African-Monkey Yep, and because we don't want to be in the situation at the next RWC that RM hasn't reached his best level (as a starter), yet, it's necessary that he gets as many test starts as possible, as early in the RWC cycle as possible. That's NOW.
Moreover, BB hasn't played his best rugby for a while, he's going to Japan and we don't know in which form we'll get him back, and he's getting older. His main asset is speed and speed tends to decline with age.
Josh Ioane is still a big question mark. Showing promise, but at the same time showing flaws, even at Mitre 10 Cup level.
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so...in the last 10 minutes ive seen posts on the socials saying
BB didn't train today
JB seen limping with an icepack
and obviously Whitelock -
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
so...in the last 10 minutes ive seen posts on the socials saying
BB didn't train today
JB seen limping with an icepack
and obviously WhitelockMy Barrett voodoo dolls are working.
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@African-Monkey said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@mariner4life No doubt, however, that is a massive IF. Some guys can develop the required skills on the go (Nonu springs to mind) and I hope Mo'unga can for the benefit of the national side, but my concern is, is that he hasn't had to change a hell of a lot at Super Rugby due to his side being so successful and has only really had to play in the one style,which hasn't transferred to test level. I hope that he has started to realise that other aspects of his game need to develop which I'm sure he has if he is to succeed at this level, otherwise I can't see him lasting that long if he thinks he can just transfer the same stuff from Super level to Test level.
Im expecting big things from him at Eden Park or whatever its called now, he certainly needs a big test.
No doubt. But First Five is a learning curve position in Test Rugby. if we look back BB,Merts were not a roaring success straight away.
DC was eased in at 2nd five for a season.
It takes time at First Five we need to stay with RM for a while no doubt he needs to improve but if BB is having achilles problems they can hang around for some time and can flare up again, pick Ioane he's no.1 who is next if he goes down if you take RM out of the picture with BB injured.
No need to panic yet up, front is the problem we have been bullied and out played there in the last 2 tests.The LF mix is fucked up and our best FB is on the wing Foster needs to sort a lot of shit out maybe find a decisive game plan I don't see one yet.
If you don't at least get parity up front you don't win. -
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
so...in the last 10 minutes ive seen posts on the socials saying
BB didn't train today
JB seen limping with an icepack
and obviously WhitelockTime to pull out due to player welfare concerns
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@Machpants said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
so...in the last 10 minutes ive seen posts on the socials saying
BB didn't train today
JB seen limping with an icepack
and obviously WhitelockTime to pull out due to player welfare concerns
It's called "doing a Springbok"
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@Machpants just say someone got Covid, but due to privacy reasons can't be named.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Machpants just say someone got Covid, but due to privacy reasons can't be named.
Lol that's put the cats amongst the pigeons!
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@African-Monkey no doubt Nonu did and was great to watch. But it did take 5 years from the time he was first selected in 03 to basically 08 when he started to look like a class midfielder. Then he became the best in the world a few years later.
Some players get time to develop - eg lack of other options, they’re worth investing in, the core talent is there and with right training and hard work from the player, they get to the peak of their ability.
Lots of factors on where a player actually ends up.
