AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?
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And the thing is when we start trying to compare ourselves to the Boks, it’s a false dichotomy because when we have had dominant teams in the past we have still lost to the Boks (and also won). And when we have had what appear to be lesser or smaller packs, we have still won.
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I am looking forward to the ABs playing anyone including the Boks or England. We have to find out where we stand and sooner better than later.
There appears to be too much attrition these days at 2nd five and center. SBW and Crotty are prime examples. I do prefer to have defined positions so if ALB is the choice right now then I hope they stick with him and Reiko. More X factor in Reiko than Goodhue. Give them a chance to gel. Same with Sotutu. Throw him in the fire. I don’t like Ardie at 8 and I agree Cane is not the player he used to be. Injured and I don’t see him being their in 4 years so caretaker captain? Ardie will probably fill the void when Cane is injured and 7 is really his position. He did not have a very good north south.
I want to see the ABs play because I like rugby, it’s a new year and hopefully a new approach to our game (I am not convinced with Foster) and foremost I am tired of a virus dictating how we live.
Jordie, Clarke, Reiko, ALB, one of the cantabs, BB, Smith, Sotutu, Cane, Akira, Whitlock, PT, moody, Taylor and Laulala (Moanga, Perenara and Goodhue, Ofa, Coles, Big T, Vaai, Papalii)
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@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I think half the problem is, up until the start of last year, the ABs thought they were perfectly positioned. And then they got muddled in their thinking, panicked, and left us in a mess. And a few chickens came home to roost as well with regards to developmental processes.
Lost faith in their senior players who fell off a cliff, didn't keep experience on the paddock, had terrible luck with injuries, missed a strong leader, and you get the volatile performances that wind up in a semifinal spanking.
In a world cup year it's a bit much to
change your back 3
constantly shuffle your midfield
change your 10
change your thinking at 6. twice.In my mind way simpler than that, our three workhorses Rettallick, Whitelock and Read all came up empty. Read probably stuck around 2 years too long, Rettalick underdone and Whitelock nothing left in the tank.
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@broughie said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I want to see the ABs play because I like rugby, it’s a new year and hopefully a new approach to our game (I am not convinced with Foster) and foremost I am tired of a virus dictating how we live.
On the positive side, when he was appointed, I was not at all convinced about Hansen, hadn't seen anything from him, and thought he would be a massive step down from Henry.
Turns out I was wrong eh (last two 1/2 years aside)
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@DMX said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I think half the problem is, up until the start of last year, the ABs thought they were perfectly positioned. And then they got muddled in their thinking, panicked, and left us in a mess. And a few chickens came home to roost as well with regards to developmental processes.
Lost faith in their senior players who fell off a cliff, didn't keep experience on the paddock, had terrible luck with injuries, missed a strong leader, and you get the volatile performances that wind up in a semifinal spanking.
In a world cup year it's a bit much to
change your back 3
constantly shuffle your midfield
change your 10
change your thinking at 6. twice.In my mind way simpler than that, our three workhorses Rettallick, Whitelock and Read all came up empty. Read probably stuck around 2 years too long, Rettalick underdone and Whitelock nothing left in the tank.
that was massive for us. But i can only blame the coaches for 1 of those. And in reality, those were the "development" things i was talking about, we did not have a back up 8 or lock of any substance.
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@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@akan004 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo Are we overrating SA a tad? I mean we beat them last year and really should have done it twice with an equally uninspiring team and coaching setup. I would give us a decent chance of winning again this year.
their RWC team was a big step up as they picked overseas players. If we'd done that I reckon we could have been super competitive ... in the short term, at the expense of throwing Super and our local development pathways under a bus.
Their RC teams also have overseas players. The team that they picked in Welly last year was pretty much the same team that we played in the RWC. I agree that we shouldn't go down their route and pick overseas based players though, it will ruin over domestic comps.
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@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@MN5 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.
How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?
We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.
And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.
I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.
You said it Homer.
I don't share the negativity.
I'm also trying to ignore the Cane trolling.
Trolling? Why do say that? Is any criticism of him disallowed?
I like Cane, I was amongst those calling for Hansons immediate sacking when he was omitted from the SF team. He hits like a rock, and in that backdrop in particular, he was absolutely necessary.
But in a balanced back row, with a traditional big 6 and a more powerful 8 (say Frizell and Sotutu), I don't think Cane is a world class 7 and I'd rather see Ardie in there.
Hardly trolling
Of course it's trolling. What did Ardie do as an openside in the NvS game apart from watch a number 8 go flying by at a scrum?
Ummmmmm - you accuse me of trolling, I give you a few valid reasons for my opinion, and you come back with a single incident in a single game as some sort of evidence that I am trolling???
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@Snowy said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
(last two 1/2 years aside)
They were quite important though.
His first 5 1/2 years were remarkable.
The last 2 1/2 were still good by any standards but the previous decade.
Hansen is a damn good coach, but I think just went stale in the role, and blinked at the end of his tenure.
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@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@taniwharugby said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo and yet we go back to the Richie era and were many calls that things were boring, the team picked itself, we won too much etc...
Never bloody happy are you
who were the sad fckers complaining about that!!!
I'm not as negative as the post probably appeared, there is talent in there. But I am glad (from a results perspective rather than a getting-to-watch rugby perspective) that we are not playing SA or England any time soon
> that was me. it was boring.
I think half the problem is, up until the start of last year, the ABs thought they were perfectly positioned. And then they got muddled in their thinking, panicked, and left us in a mess. And a few chickens came home to roost as well with regards to developmental processes.
This is very much 2004. Except with a guy in charge who was already there and caused this mess to start with.
all this time we were blaming Hanson and it was actually your fault
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@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@MN5 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.
How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?
We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.
And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.
I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.
You said it Homer.
I don't share the negativity.
I'm also trying to ignore the Cane trolling.
Trolling? Why do say that? Is any criticism of him disallowed?
I like Cane, I was amongst those calling for Hansons immediate sacking when he was omitted from the SF team. He hits like a rock, and in that backdrop in particular, he was absolutely necessary.
But in a balanced back row, with a traditional big 6 and a more powerful 8 (say Frizell and Sotutu), I don't think Cane is a world class 7 and I'd rather see Ardie in there.
Hardly trolling
Of course it's trolling. What did Ardie do as an openside in the NvS game apart from watch a number 8 go flying by at a scrum?
Ummmmmm - you accuse me of trolling, I give you a few valid reasons for my opinion, and you come back with a single incident in a single game as some sort of evidence that I am trolling???
That you think they're valid doesn't make them so. I simply can't take anyone seriously who posits that Cane isn't a world class openside flanker.
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@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@MN5 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.
How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?
We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.
And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.
I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.
You said it Homer.
I don't share the negativity.
I'm also trying to ignore the Cane trolling.
Trolling? Why do say that? Is any criticism of him disallowed?
I like Cane, I was amongst those calling for Hansons immediate sacking when he was omitted from the SF team. He hits like a rock, and in that backdrop in particular, he was absolutely necessary.
But in a balanced back row, with a traditional big 6 and a more powerful 8 (say Frizell and Sotutu), I don't think Cane is a world class 7 and I'd rather see Ardie in there.
Hardly trolling
Of course it's trolling. What did Ardie do as an openside in the NvS game apart from watch a number 8 go flying by at a scrum?
Ummmmmm - you accuse me of trolling, I give you a few valid reasons for my opinion, and you come back with a single incident in a single game as some sort of evidence that I am trolling???
That you think they're valid doesn't make them so. I simply can't take anyone seriously who posits that Cane isn't a world class openside flanker.
Well not too many world class guys get left out of their national side for a RWC SF do they? Seriously, where would you rank him internationally as a 7? World class to me means you're one of the first guys to be picked in your national team. Guess we just have different measures of greatness.
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Perhaps the discussion should be whether Cane CAN be a world class flanker again, rather than whether he was?
I don't think that many would argue that he wasn't, and the class is permanent thing?
I reckon / hope that he puts a black jersey on as captain, and we will see him at his best again.
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@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@MN5 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.
How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?
We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.
And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.
I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.
You said it Homer.
I don't share the negativity.
I'm also trying to ignore the Cane trolling.
Trolling? Why do say that? Is any criticism of him disallowed?
I like Cane, I was amongst those calling for Hansons immediate sacking when he was omitted from the SF team. He hits like a rock, and in that backdrop in particular, he was absolutely necessary.
But in a balanced back row, with a traditional big 6 and a more powerful 8 (say Frizell and Sotutu), I don't think Cane is a world class 7 and I'd rather see Ardie in there.
Hardly trolling
Of course it's trolling. What did Ardie do as an openside in the NvS game apart from watch a number 8 go flying by at a scrum?
Ummmmmm - you accuse me of trolling, I give you a few valid reasons for my opinion, and you come back with a single incident in a single game as some sort of evidence that I am trolling???
That you think they're valid doesn't make them so. I simply can't take anyone seriously who posits that Cane isn't a world class openside flanker.
Well not too many world class guys get left out of their national side for a RWC SF do they? Seriously, where would you rank him internationally as a 7? World class to me means you're one of the first guys to be picked in your national team. Guess we just have different measures of greatness.
Cane being left out of the RWC SF was an absolutely ridiculous decision. It was literally leaving a world class player out of the starting lineup for the most important game. I still shake my head in disbelief at that.
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@No-Quarter you'd imagine it still haunts Hanson and co!
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@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@No-Quarter you'd imagine it still haunts Hanson and co!
It should. It was a rookie mistake.
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@No-Quarter said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@MN5 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.
How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?
We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.
And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.
I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.
You said it Homer.
I don't share the negativity.
I'm also trying to ignore the Cane trolling.
Trolling? Why do say that? Is any criticism of him disallowed?
I like Cane, I was amongst those calling for Hansons immediate sacking when he was omitted from the SF team. He hits like a rock, and in that backdrop in particular, he was absolutely necessary.
But in a balanced back row, with a traditional big 6 and a more powerful 8 (say Frizell and Sotutu), I don't think Cane is a world class 7 and I'd rather see Ardie in there.
Hardly trolling
Of course it's trolling. What did Ardie do as an openside in the NvS game apart from watch a number 8 go flying by at a scrum?
Ummmmmm - you accuse me of trolling, I give you a few valid reasons for my opinion, and you come back with a single incident in a single game as some sort of evidence that I am trolling???
That you think they're valid doesn't make them so. I simply can't take anyone seriously who posits that Cane isn't a world class openside flanker.
Well not too many world class guys get left out of their national side for a RWC SF do they? Seriously, where would you rank him internationally as a 7? World class to me means you're one of the first guys to be picked in your national team. Guess we just have different measures of greatness.
Cane being left out of the RWC SF was an absolutely ridiculous decision. It was literally leaving a world class player out of the starting lineup for the most important game. I still shake my head in disbelief at that.
I n 2019 Ardie might have been the most consistent forward we had and he was definitely in much better form than Cane. If you think Cane should have played its basically saying Hansen was correct in his original decision to play without a number 6 which was not completely obvious at the time he first chose the combo. That said I think Cane should have played because the combo had already worked quite effectively but for my reasons above it doesn't change the result.
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@DMX He was correct to play without a number 6 because he did a piss weak job in developing a proper number 6 in the 2-3 years leading up to the RWC. Instead we were left with guys like Fifita and Squire trying to fill that role, and lost a talent in Luatua to the north thanks to Hansen's terrible selections.
