'Super Rugby' 2021
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I am very much against basing a team anywhere with no local presence.
The Chiefs are a prime example of that not working.
while I am not the Waikato's biggest fan...
That's unfair.
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@mariner4life nope
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
I mean if both teams go it alone. Australia need our quality, (sorry Aussies, it's arrogant but it's true);
we are simply too small to do it by ourselves.
In the end both unions either go broke, or lose too many players to big O/S contracts.
I see I'm 10 pages behind this thread so am assuming I've been boobooed before I begin, but ...
... what does Oz offer us? The Rugby market here is probably barely as big as NZ, and worth nothing to Fox.
I think we are still stuck in the mindset that they have a bigger market.
So they have no with, no quality and no money.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Why not? They have had pretty solid support, albeit with poor results. Regularly have big crowds at Bledisloes, tests etc.
COVID?
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@booboo said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
I mean if both teams go it alone. Australia need our quality, (sorry Aussies, it's arrogant but it's true);
we are simply too small to do it by ourselves.
In the end both unions either go broke, or lose too many players to big O/S contracts.
I see I'm 10 pages behind this thread so am assuming I've been boobooed before I begin, but ...
... what does Oz offer us? The Rugby market here is probably barely as big as NZ, and worth nothing to Fox.
I think we are still stuck in the mindset that they have a bigger market.
So they have no with, no quality and no money.
Mainly they just have more teams. A 5 team competition isn't going to work so you may as well include the Aussie teams.
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@booboo said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Why not? They have had pretty solid support, albeit with poor results. Regularly have big crowds at Bledisloes, tests etc.
COVID?
In 2014?
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@booboo said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Why not? They have had pretty solid support, albeit with poor results. Regularly have big crowds at Bledisloes, tests etc.
COVID?
In 2014?
It's a weird virus
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
That suggestion reminds me of the AFL situation in SA. Adelaide was created as a greenfields club to represent the city, but later Port Adelaide was elevated from the SA league. This created massive division.
I think the issue was Port (biggest most successful club) tried to get entry to the AFL and the other SANFL clubs banded together to stop them. But I digress...
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@booboo NRZ seemed to conclude pretty early that a 5 team comp is not sustainable - so they need some additional teams. Obviously they just want the Tahs/Brumbies/Reds without having to worry about the Rebels or Force.
Issue is, it would be suicide for RA to exclude both those teams again. So they won't budge on the 5 team minimum. Hence the deadlock.
Both countries need each other in some capacity and both unions have ego's the size of celestial bodies.
In terms of market size - yeah the Australian market is currently smaller. But NZ is at saturation. It can't get any bigger. Rugby has previously been bigger in Australia and clearly has the capacity to improve with some half decent management (good luck finding that though).
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
clearly has the capacity to improve with some half decent management (good luck finding that though).
Have 3 teams that can win? In the most populous area of the country? Might help with crowds and viewer numbers. Watching poor quality rugby with 5 Aus teams seems unlikely to I reckon. It spreads the talent and all of the teams could be weaker.
Aus has about 87,000 registered players, NZ has around 150,000. 1 good team per 30,000 leaves you with...3 Aus teams. Admittedly a simplistic equation but also indicative of the way things panned out with expansion teams.
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean Six years ago. How long did that take to find?
Got 30k to Ireland a few years ago, I'd reckon that's decent enough. Boosted by expats, sure, but that's why the city has potential to sustain a team. The interest is there.
As said several pages ago - for domestic rugby - no, it isn't. Once a year, to watch the national team, there is sufficient interest to fill AAMI Park with 30k. That's not enough to sustain a local team week-after-week during the AFL season.
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@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up.
Just to clarify this - in order to avoid having five second rate Australian teams, you will set up a comp with five third rate teams from Asia, the PIs and the Americas?
No. My thinking is that we stop looking at the past type of setup which has caused these problems and look at a totally new concept of a pro comp.
we can provide the facilities and the best broadcasters for rugby in the world. We can also provide 5 quality teams/franchises. We would want maybe 5 more to kick things off and need to widen interest beyond the old Oz teams. If they want to buy 2 or 3 franchise licences then good on them.
Our teams can still be backed by the NZRU but others can be private. It makes commercial sense for a PI “themed” franchise to start up. If the aussies don’t want their established teams in then they run the risk of players being offered contracts in NZ comp franchises.
Kind of a US sport approach.
I don’t think we are too small at all. We are arguably the best rugby country in the world and should have a quality comp to sell. Making travel domestic only removes massive costs.Who is going to watch this amazing comp you're proposing?
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@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@nzzp said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
What rivers of gold that would be more than if we “owned” the comp?
Broadcasting rights, by way of comparison, where they have 5 times our population and 20% higher GDP per person.
There is just no way to compete financially. Rugby is 3rd (well, probably 4th overall if you consdier cricket), so why aren't we helping them grow their game and the market?
How far away would those rivers be?
For decades Rugby in Australia has been propped up by the overall SANZAR broadcasting rights hasn't it?
They struggle with gaining traction on pay tv avenues and keep shifting around FTA ones as they lose interest.
If they did get really popular then they have the issue of having to show games FTA (under the sports broadcasting laws)I think we should be taking this opportunity to reset the model entirely. Look at setting up a comp that sells the product to streaming services (e.g. Amazon). If Oz Rugby wants to buy in to that and add a couple of franchises then good. If they would rather have their own comp that's fine as well, we need to have the better product. If they want to come together and have a playoff at the end of the season that works as well.
Comps like EPL, NBA, NFL etc are all based in one country with timezones awkward for the rest of the world. That hasn't stopped them being the pinnacle TV comps of the codes with franchise marketing popularity.
It would be just as long a road to build that than it would be to get Australia into a financial position to contribute.You do realise that most of the money in club football is in the Champions League, which brings together teams from all nations across Europe...?
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@junior said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@nzzp said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
What rivers of gold that would be more than if we “owned” the comp?
Broadcasting rights, by way of comparison, where they have 5 times our population and 20% higher GDP per person.
There is just no way to compete financially. Rugby is 3rd (well, probably 4th overall if you consdier cricket), so why aren't we helping them grow their game and the market?
How far away would those rivers be?
For decades Rugby in Australia has been propped up by the overall SANZAR broadcasting rights hasn't it?
They struggle with gaining traction on pay tv avenues and keep shifting around FTA ones as they lose interest.
If they did get really popular then they have the issue of having to show games FTA (under the sports broadcasting laws)I think we should be taking this opportunity to reset the model entirely. Look at setting up a comp that sells the product to streaming services (e.g. Amazon). If Oz Rugby wants to buy in to that and add a couple of franchises then good. If they would rather have their own comp that's fine as well, we need to have the better product. If they want to come together and have a playoff at the end of the season that works as well.
Comps like EPL, NBA, NFL etc are all based in one country with timezones awkward for the rest of the world. That hasn't stopped them being the pinnacle TV comps of the codes with franchise marketing popularity.
It would be just as long a road to build that than it would be to get Australia into a financial position to contribute.You do realise that most of the money in club football is in the Champions League, which brings together teams from all nations across Europe...?
Around a third of EPL club revenues comes from International TV rights.
Obviously the ideas I am throwing out would rely heavily on exporting the product. I am simply saying isn't it time to investigate and drive that market ourselves?
At present we rely way too heavily on the internal market for the comp. This has driven all the changes that we don't like as we have to keep expanding and adding in new markets by taking on uncompetitive teams -
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy Yeah except, bringing you back to the rational world, the whole starting premise was that NZRU needs someone else to play with...
If they didn't they would have told us to shove it ages ago.
Perfectly rational thanks. Aus need someone to play with too...
