World Rugby Board elections
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@mariner4life that genuinely made me laugh out loud. Top work
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@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
I'd say Argentina helping Australia by withdrawing its bid is an outcome rather than intent. It was reported months ago that Australia was considered to have the strongest bid. The question will be will South Africa as current champions also bid considering Australia gets to host the Lions in 2025 (presuming no new virus....)
Not self-nominating for stuck record on this point either; but the unintended consequence of permitting players to put off playing for tier two nations in the hope of making a tier one team would be catastrophic.
See I've argued against this before. Its really tough
but how do you weigh a fringe AB possibility who COULD play for an island nation in his prime, against an ex-AB, bringing 2-10 years of AB experience (bigger games, professional setup, yada yada), coming back to an Island nation for 2-5 years?Then I fall back on "why shouldn't a bloke born in Samoa, lived in NZ for 25yrs and played all his code there, be able to contribute back to his country of birth by relocating, playingbrugby, paying taxes, and being a part of the rugby fraternity?
What are we really afraid of?
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@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
I'd say Argentina helping Australia by withdrawing its bid is an outcome rather than intent. It was reported months ago that Australia was considered to have the strongest bid. The question will be will South Africa as current champions also bid considering Australia gets to host the Lions in 2025 (presuming no new virus....)
Not self-nominating for stuck record on this point either; but the unintended consequence of permitting players to put off playing for tier two nations in the hope of making a tier one team would be catastrophic.
See I've argued against this before. Its really tough
but how do you weigh a fringe AB possibility who COULD play for an island nation in his prime, against an ex-AB, bringing 2-10 years of AB experience (bigger games, professional setup, yada yada), coming back to an Island nation for 2-5 years?How many times has the All Blacks gotten the balance wrong? No system is infallible.
Then I fall back on "why shouldn't a bloke born in Samoa, lived in NZ for 25yrs and played all his code there, be able to contribute back to his country of birth by relocating, playingbrugby, paying taxes, and being a part of the rugby fraternity?
Why is playing the only way for this player to contribute?
What are we really afraid of?
The litany of policies with good intentions that do the opposite?
I've given some thought to the fortunes of Scotland and I can't help but feel what's bad for them will be bad for PI rugby as well in a generation due to the difference of mass migration timing. It's a very difficult issue fraught with danger and I'd strongly advise caution.
It's not like WR have a track record of bright ideas...
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@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
I'd say Argentina helping Australia by withdrawing its bid is an outcome rather than intent. It was reported months ago that Australia was considered to have the strongest bid. The question will be will South Africa as current champions also bid considering Australia gets to host the Lions in 2025 (presuming no new virus....)
Not self-nominating for stuck record on this point either; but the unintended consequence of permitting players to put off playing for tier two nations in the hope of making a tier one team would be catastrophic.
Then I fall back on "why shouldn't a bloke born in Samoa, lived in NZ for 25yrs and played all his code there, be able to contribute back to his country of birth by relocating, playingbrugby, paying taxes, and being a part of the rugby fraternity?
Why is playing the only way for this player to contribute?
Of course it isn't, but why should world rugby have the ability restrict the ability of a man who has made his home in his home country, is a resident, who just wants to ply his profession and contribute?
We are all about personal liberties at the moment, why not in this case?
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@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
I'd say Argentina helping Australia by withdrawing its bid is an outcome rather than intent. It was reported months ago that Australia was considered to have the strongest bid. The question will be will South Africa as current champions also bid considering Australia gets to host the Lions in 2025 (presuming no new virus....)
Not self-nominating for stuck record on this point either; but the unintended consequence of permitting players to put off playing for tier two nations in the hope of making a tier one team would be catastrophic.
Then I fall back on "why shouldn't a bloke born in Samoa, lived in NZ for 25yrs and played all his code there, be able to contribute back to his country of birth by relocating, playingbrugby, paying taxes, and being a part of the rugby fraternity?
Why is playing the only way for this player to contribute?
Of course it isn't, but why should world rugby have the ability restrict the ability of a man who has made his home in his home country, is a resident, who just wants to ply his profession and contribute?
We are all about personal liberties at the moment, why not in this case?
Liberty to pursue a livelihood doesn't mean it should be available to you at the highest level because you want a scenery change.
Let's look at it a different way: What happens when certain professionals with a few years left in them, not quite making their original RWC squads, go "home" and bolster Fiji or Samoa and Home Nations get kicked out of the RWC?
Personally I'd find it hilarious, but the backlash would be brutal.
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@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
I'd say Argentina helping Australia by withdrawing its bid is an outcome rather than intent. It was reported months ago that Australia was considered to have the strongest bid. The question will be will South Africa as current champions also bid considering Australia gets to host the Lions in 2025 (presuming no new virus....)
Not self-nominating for stuck record on this point either; but the unintended consequence of permitting players to put off playing for tier two nations in the hope of making a tier one team would be catastrophic.
Then I fall back on "why shouldn't a bloke born in Samoa, lived in NZ for 25yrs and played all his code there, be able to contribute back to his country of birth by relocating, playingbrugby, paying taxes, and being a part of the rugby fraternity?
Why is playing the only way for this player to contribute?
Of course it isn't, but why should world rugby have the ability restrict the ability of a man who has made his home in his home country, is a resident, who just wants to ply his profession and contribute?
We are all about personal liberties at the moment, why not in this case?
Liberty to pursue a livelihood doesn't mean it should be available to you at the highest level because you want a scenery change.
Let's look at it a different way: What happens when certain professionals with a few years left in them, not quite making their original RWC squads, go "home" and bolster Fiji or Samoa and Home Nations get kicked out of the RWC?
I'm totally fine with that!!! Why on earth wouldn't you be???
The proviso, as always, is that you meet the eligibility criteria, which I've previously advocated should be residency and a stand-down period. If someone genuinely moves to a country and makes it their home, I have zero issue with them leading their parliament, their top 10 companies, or playing for their national rugby team.
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@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
I'd say Argentina helping Australia by withdrawing its bid is an outcome rather than intent. It was reported months ago that Australia was considered to have the strongest bid. The question will be will South Africa as current champions also bid considering Australia gets to host the Lions in 2025 (presuming no new virus....)
Not self-nominating for stuck record on this point either; but the unintended consequence of permitting players to put off playing for tier two nations in the hope of making a tier one team would be catastrophic.
Then I fall back on "why shouldn't a bloke born in Samoa, lived in NZ for 25yrs and played all his code there, be able to contribute back to his country of birth by relocating, playingbrugby, paying taxes, and being a part of the rugby fraternity?
Why is playing the only way for this player to contribute?
Of course it isn't, but why should world rugby have the ability restrict the ability of a man who has made his home in his home country, is a resident, who just wants to ply his profession and contribute?
We are all about personal liberties at the moment, why not in this case?
Liberty to pursue a livelihood doesn't mean it should be available to you at the highest level because you want a scenery change.
Let's look at it a different way: What happens when certain professionals with a few years left in them, not quite making their original RWC squads, go "home" and bolster Fiji or Samoa and Home Nations get kicked out of the RWC?
I'm totally fine with that!!! Why on earth wouldn't you be???
As I said in my edit which you probably missed while you were responding, I'd find it hilarious but the fallout would be huge.
The proviso, as always, is that you meet the eligibility criteria, which I've previously advocated should be residency and a stand-down period. If someone genuinely moves to a country and makes it their home, I have zero issue with them leading their parliament, their top 10 companies, or playing for their national rugby team.
I'd be happy with that, but any reasonable stand down period would make it unlikely anyway. The issue is the mix of the tier one to tier two swap combined with the grandparent rule.
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@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@voodoo said in World Rugby chairman election:
@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
I'd say Argentina helping Australia by withdrawing its bid is an outcome rather than intent. It was reported months ago that Australia was considered to have the strongest bid. The question will be will South Africa as current champions also bid considering Australia gets to host the Lions in 2025 (presuming no new virus....)
Not self-nominating for stuck record on this point either; but the unintended consequence of permitting players to put off playing for tier two nations in the hope of making a tier one team would be catastrophic.
Then I fall back on "why shouldn't a bloke born in Samoa, lived in NZ for 25yrs and played all his code there, be able to contribute back to his country of birth by relocating, playingbrugby, paying taxes, and being a part of the rugby fraternity?
Why is playing the only way for this player to contribute?
Of course it isn't, but why should world rugby have the ability restrict the ability of a man who has made his home in his home country, is a resident, who just wants to ply his profession and contribute?
We are all about personal liberties at the moment, why not in this case?
Liberty to pursue a livelihood doesn't mean it should be available to you at the highest level because you want a scenery change.
Let's look at it a different way: What happens when certain professionals with a few years left in them, not quite making their original RWC squads, go "home" and bolster Fiji or Samoa and Home Nations get kicked out of the RWC?
I'm totally fine with that!!! Why on earth wouldn't you be???
As I said in my edit which you probably missed while you were responding, I'd find it hilarious but the fallout would be huge.
The proviso, as always, is that you meet the eligibility criteria, which I've previously advocated should be residency and a stand-down period. If someone genuinely moves to a country and makes it their home, I have zero issue with them leading their parliament, their top 10 companies, or playing for their national rugby team.
I'd be happy with that, but any reasonable stand down period would make it unlikely anyway. The issue is the mix of the tier one to tier two swap combined with the grandparent rule.
Yeah missed the edit, sorry . But I typically just see a bunch of arguments from people saying it wouldn't work for the PI nations. Then a bunch more saying it would be bad for the home nations. And I just cant reconcile it.
I see the PI nations in particular losing a stack of guys to other nations through migration, scholarships, whatever, and I see no reason not to level the playing field, within reason/rules.
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@antipodean said in World Rugby chairman election:
@Nepia said in World Rugby chairman election:
@Bovidae said in World Rugby chairman election:
It's about time we had a SH chairman so I hope Pichot gets over the line, however unlikely that is.
Pichot has come across pretty anti NZ so I don’t think we should rely on SH bonding.
That's reflective I think of his pet peeve; migration. Hence why they talk about countries that don't have "foreigners" playing for them.
There's no doubt NZ has benefited from PI migration from the 60s and 70s, and with the schooling scholarships whereas Argentina hasn't had any since Nazis moved in the 40s and 50s....
Even if restrictions on "foreigners" are imposed - which I agree with, BTW - we will be fine because most of our "foreigners" are NZ born and / or raised
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Beaumont, please.
Pichot is about as pro SH rugby as your average NH paid rugby scribe. He knows which side his bread is buttered on, and it ain't one which is good for NZ, or Oz rugby.
Under Pichot, you would have a tournament which included the 6N, SA, Japan & Argentina.
Beaumont maybe one of the Cucumber sandwich brigade, but he's a lot more trustworthy IMHO.
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A cautious vote to re-elect Sir Bill Beaumont from me. He is one of the cucumber sandwich/flat warm beer brigade but he loves the game and its traditions. He's more effective than Vernon Pugh or Syd Miller were, but not as dynamic as Bernard Lapasset.
Commercially the Rugby World Cup in Japan was a great success. Lions tours are superb entertianment. The 6 Nations (besides the farcical games against Italy) remains a commerical and media hit. The Rugby Championship is okay but gets overshadowed in a RWC year. Before the virus hit the game was making progress in Japan and the US.
Four issues need World Rugby's action:
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Make June and November internationals more meaningful. Move towards a global season.
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Unions in Europe need to have more control over their clubs who frequently act in their own short-term interest rather than the good of the game.
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A better financial deal for Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific teams. Unions that produce talent should be rewarded for it.
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Set up a committee to simplify and shorten the law book.
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@mariner4life said in World Rugby chairman election:
@Machpants said in World Rugby chairman election:
Ugh nothing like a bit of corruption and nepotism to really help stink the place up
is there any role Cliff Curtis can't play?
My very first thought on seeing that come up... "Uncle Bully!", and very next post - see I'm 22 hours too late to the party.
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@nzzp I hadnt even seen it first time around, @mariner4life probably hasnt seen this either
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Hopefully a fatal blow to NH Beau and his dodgy French deal with the convicted killer. Doubt it, but one can only hope.
Key Bill Beaumont supporter forced to quit World Rugby council
Francis Kean, a key supporter of Bill Beaumont’s bid for re-election as World Rugby’s chairman, has resigned after World Rugby and Beaumont put considerable pressure on the Fiji Rugby Union to act over mounting allegations
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@Machpants The Guardian seems more upset he used homophobic language than kicked a man to death at a wedding reception.
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The ever trustworthy Herald suggests Fiji will have the deciding vote, and haven't decided how to cast it.
This election probably has more potential to affect the global game than most other stuff at the moment - I don't know enough to be well informed, but the media seem to be telling me that I should be supporting the greasy argie, rather than the gin swilling pom (see Guardian- racist offensive language!)
Also, still chortling about the Cliff Curtis line from above
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12326528
