Japan and Super Rugby
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[ edit - split from the Sunwolves v Chiefs thread ]
@mariner4life TBF Japan Rugby doesn't give a shit about this team and left them to flounder picking up anyone they can to make a squad
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@taniwharugby said in Sunwolves v Chiefs:
@mariner4life TBF Japan Rugby doesn't give a shit about this team and left them to flounder picking up anyone they can to make a squad
After seeing that crowd there I have a different view. The whole idea of having a team from Japan wasn't to create some pseudo national side full of Japanese players. It was to create a product to sell in a country that was developing into the sport and had a lot of money and sponsorship potential to pump into the floundering SH professional game.
As a franchise they have been obviously doing good things off field and that will slowly translate to more yen and a better team. The is business rugby not a provincial game and although I like our franchises to look in their own backyard first, that is because we use Super Rugby as part of our pathway.
As far as growing the game (for money) the Sunwolves are fulfilling their end and should be kept on to see what develops. Look how long it took the Jags to come right.
If the Saffas leave sometime down the track we will be begging the Japs to come back. -
I agree with all of that
Also, it’s a shame that more Top League players aren’t available. Regardless of nationality.
If the season could be structured differently (no idea how) Japans market and fans could support multiple SR sides (which we’ll need if/when SA leave).
It struggles have a competitive team when the League is also running -
@Crucial dunno about that, if it was about the product and exposure surely you get some better quality players, some of the ones this year are more M10 Cup level.
If they want to create exposure in the Japanese market you get a couple of top Japanese or JL players, hell even if they only play home games.
I reckon it has been a huge opportunity missed.
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@taniwharugby said in Sunwolves v Chiefs:
@Crucial dunno about that, if it was about the product and exposure surely you get some better quality players, some of the ones this year are more M10 Cup level.
If they want to create exposure in the Japanese market you get a couple of top Japanese or JL players, hell even if they only play home games.
I reckon it has been a huge opportunity missed.
I reckon that will happen over time. You have that many rugby fans going to a game with no expectations of a win yet soon they will like to see themselves with more of a chance. The sponsors follow the people and Japanese Rugby will also see that to make their national side even stronger they should finds ways to give better players experience playing top teams.
I just think Sanzar has pulled the plug early and should have come up with a better idea to keep them in. -
@taniwharugby said in Sunwolves v Chiefs:
if it was about the product and exposure surely you get some better quality players.
The better quality of players are signed to TL teams and are not released.
I’d like to see something else tried with Japan but something has to change with the TL.
Maybe a change of timing of TL, merged TL sides in SR (not sure if possible with the company sides..) and NZers in Japan being eligible for the ABsMehrtens suggested something similar to that large year as he thought SR would implode and the SA team will leave
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The Mehrtens comments I mentioned
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@Duluth I posted this in another thread:
@Stargazer said in NH International Rugby:
Ignore the title. Reading the article, there is no spat between WR and JRFU.
The JRFU just seems to have no clue about what they're doing with their domestic competition. Apart from the fact that they seem to be changing the competition every other year, they're also planning it wrong (scheduling it for the wrong months: August/September to January), much to the frustration of Jamie Joseph.
Rugby: Jamie Joseph caught in middle of spat between World Rugby and JRFU
An escalating spat between World Rugby and the Japan Rugby Football Union was behind Brave Blossoms coach Jamie Joseph's recent comments about the timing of a new domestic league, a source close to the matter tells Kyodo News.
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Japan are really bad at organising their own domestic competition. If they want to be part of SR or a future comp replacing SR, they need to turn the TL into a domestic comp that is played at the same time as the Mitre 10 Cup and NRC. With all the international players they have, it would still be great to watch for their crowd, and they could select their own (Japanese) top players to play for Japan (in a new TRC) and those same players could play SR from Feb to June) in a new SR franchise with hopefully more top Japanese players (and fewer third string foreigners).
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Basically at a time where we need money and big markets to sustain our game it seems crazy to ditch a team in the biggest market that can attract a huge crowd to see a shite team made up of journeymen. Let their market work out how to make it work better for them but at the moment if I was a sponsor for a kiwi side I would be loving the exposure I could tap into in Japan
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@Stargazer said in Japan and Super Rugby:
Japan are really bad at organising their own domestic competition. If they want to be part of SR or a future comp replacing SR, they need to turn the TL into a domestic comp that is played at the same time as the Mitre 10 Cup and NRC.
The season is a bit strange this year, but normally the season goes from late August to to mid Jan
They’d probably need to shorten it
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@Duluth Yep, reducing the number of teams might help. Currently 16 temas in TL that play a round robin comp (120 games) without finals.
They should consider going back to the structure of the 2018-19 TL season or two entirely separate divisions (a higher and a lower tier), cut a few teams and get rid of Quarter Finals, so they can finish the entire comp in October.
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We don't need to tell them how to structure their game though. If they want to be part of an international pro comp they will find a way.
In the meantime does it matter if the SWs are shit or not as long as NZ teams can attract sponsors with a promise of exposure in the huge Japanese market? -
@Crucial said in Japan and Super Rugby:
We don't need to tell them how to structure their game though.
I don't think anyone on the Fern is in the position to tell the JRFU what to do. But we can express an opinion on what we think they should do.
I do mind shit teams being part of SR, if there is no genuine effort on the part of the home union to sign the best (Japanese) players to create a competitive team. IMO generating sponsor money isn't a sufficient reason to keep or invite a shit team like the SW to join/stay in SR if the TL clubs aren't prepared/forced to release more of their best players.
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@Stargazer I expect if they were a better team, sponsors would pay more...
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long term, I like Merht’s idea - there is plenty of money here and the time zones mostly work, so it is a big enough to get sponsor dollars and keep enough top and second tier players around, if a competition can be worked out the suits everyone.
Simply replacing SA with JP teams is a good strategy if SA walk away, although I’d prefer a competition through March - May that was inter pool play (eg, NZ derbies, Aus derbies, JP derbies, SA derbies) then a month in June with finals for 12 teams in two competitions (super cup For the top two from each, super something for next two) then we have International and (Semi-pro) domestic comps, and finished by November.
To be eligible for the ABs you’d have to play in any super rugby team.
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@gt12 said in Japan and Super Rugby:
To be eligible for the ABs you’d have to play in any super rugby team.
I suppose one of the problems with this is the NZRU wouldn't have control over work loads etc. There would be nothing stopping a foreign Super Team thrashing an AB into the ground, but I guess that's the risk the player would have to take if they decide to play for an overseas team.
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@Crazy-Horse said in [Japan and Super Rugby](/post/419338:
I suppose one of the problems with this is the NZRU wouldn't have control over work loads etc. There would be nothing stopping a foreign Super Team thrashing an AB into the ground, but I guess that's the risk the player would have to take if they decide to play for an overseas team.
Yeah if something like this did happen, I’m sure there would be a bias towards NZ based players still.
It would be great for fringe players and older established guys wanting a change of scenery
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@Duluth Daniel BRaid was in probably best form of his life when he played for the REds, but ineligible for ABs
