The future of NZ Rugby
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@rotated said in The future of NZ Rugby:
@pukunui said in The future of NZ Rugby:
Just take the top 8-10 Provinces and create a first division round robin.
Not as easy as just doing that. How did that go last time?
The obvious unions to drop will try to delay with legal action and then go cap in hand to the NZRU asking to pay their legal bill. I agree it's the right option but I would want to see there is either a resolve from the NZRU to see it through or a way to avoid a protracted legal process.
Yeah, definitely only plan D given the drastic restructure it would involve. But there don’t seem to be many easy options if we are moving away from super.
The other point I haven’t heard mentioned is that if we are all of a sudden creating new NZ Super teams, where are the players coming from? Of the players who are off contract i would think a large percentage would still be looking at signing for one of the 5 existing teams.
It will take years for the new team/teams to get established. In the mean time we will see some lop sided games and be back at square one. -
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Agreed. I don't know exactly how to do it, but it makes me laugh when kiwis bang on about having a great 8 team kiwi only competition.
Neat.
With 5 million ppl in the home market, and even on a sports forum quite a few don't bother paying for Sky, that's definitely a must have on every sports channel.
For better or worse, NZ needs to find some bigger markets they can tie up with.
A two-tiered competition (SRA + ____) would allow the best of both worlds, and allow a Southern club championship like the Heineken cup.
Or, they could go for a a two tiered Super competition. I don't know how, but I'm sure that a good solution doesn't have NZ going it alone.
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@rotated well if it is done properly, not on some manipulated figures for a predetermined outcome, it would be harder to argue against.
Similar to the way you bang the same drum about blaming the provinces that were under the gun without addressing the fact NZR failed to do the restructure transparently last time.
Was a hatchet job and was rightly pulled.
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@taniwharugby said in The future of NZ Rugby:
@rotated well if it is done properly, not on some manipulated figures for a predetermined outcome, it would be harder to argue against.
Similar to the way you bang the same drum about blaming the provinces that were under the gun without addressing the fact NZR failed to do the restructure transparently last time.
Was a hatchet job and was rightly pulled.
As @pukunui said 8-10 provinces. You could have the most an absolute meritocracy and crystal clear transparency and there is no way you are going to get 4-6 provinces to roll over when you could have two go quietly when about five were on financial life support a decade ago.
If you are making a radical change like restoring (a form of) the Mitre 10 Cup to the premier domestic competition then the decisions should be strategic anyway. There is no criteria that would see any of the Super bases miss out for example.
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South Auckland base for planned Pasifika super rugby side
A group of former All Blacks, including two-time World Cup winner Jerome Kaino, are behind the establishment of the first professional rugby union team in Hawaii.
Kanaloa Hawaii has had its bid to join America's Major League Rugby confirmed and is now in talks with New Zealand Rugby about joining a revamped Super Rugby competition.
It would be a separate team to the one that will play in the US, and would be based in South Auckland.
Kaino and fellow former All Blacks Joe Rokocoko, John Afoa, Benson Stanley, Anthony Tuitavake and Ben Atiga are in the Kanaloa Hawaii ownership group.
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The chief executive of Kanaloa Hawaii, Tracy Atiga, told RNZ Pacific, said they have already had discussions with New Zealand Rugby about the possibility of joining a new-look Super Rugby tournament.
New Zealand Rugby is currently examining the future make up of Super Rugby and the international Rugby Championship, with its Aratipu report due to go to the board next week.
"We would essentially set up our satellite programme which is here in south Auckland to accommodate a second team," said Atiga.
"So we are not talking about one team that plays in the MLR and then they come and play in Super Rugby - we are talking about two pro teams that would have equally competitive athletes at that level and we would own and operate them in co-ordination with each other," she said.
Former All Blacks and Wallabies skills coach Mick Byrne would be head coach with former All Black Tamati Ellison assistant coach.
South Auckland base for planned Pasifika super rugby side
A Pacific Islands Super Rugby team based in South Auckland is gaining traction.
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@pukunui said in The future of NZ Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in The future of NZ Rugby:
what ever they put forward, NZ needs to accept not being as dominant as we were for most of Super Rugby or we'll just end up killing the interest in places like Aus or Japan where Rugby isn't the No 1 sport...for NZ rugby to survive we need other countries markets...and for these markets to exist theyre going to need to win some games
I think a lot of true rugby fans forget that most supporter watch it for there team to win...most people dont watch games just hoping for some good rugby regardless of whos winning
Your two paragraphs don’t match up. You are suggesting diluting NZ teams to make them shitter to save NZ rugby.
But then saying people watch to see their teams be good and win.So lets turn away NZ fans in the hope that we make some Aussie bandwagon jumpers happy? Fuck that.
Japan rugby showed no interest in the sunwolves, where is the evidence to suggest they are suddenly going to want to put multiple teams in Super rugby?
Adding a team from the pacific is equally crazy. It will be a commercial basket case.
If a return to a Super 15 round robin like was meant to happen is a no go and a 9-10 team trans Ta$man comp isn’t considered viable and Rugby Aotearoa also isn’t considered viable then i would think the best option would be a revamped NPC.
No more super franchises. Just take the top 8-10 Provinces and create a first division round robin. And make a second division with the remaining npc teams plus dome heartland sides and one or two from the pacific.
Have automatic promotion/relegation.But quite frankly, if the three options above (super 15, trans Ta$man or RAot) aren’t viable we are in trouble.
Chucking pacific islands teams or japanese teams in and allowing our players to freely drain away is going to be a bigger disaster than the over expanded, conference based mess super rugby had become already.I was talking about new/potential/non NZ fans, they're not going to get invested if they just get thumped by the NZ teams every week
I agree with the NPC stuff you mention though
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Don't forget that NPC has had major problems over time. Not just on the money side but through the same dominance issues that are being discussed about in Super.
Before NPC (and in the early years) talent was spread natuarally. Provincial teams hadn't had their kids 'scholarshipped' away to the cities and many returned home after a spell at University.
The combination of money where the cities are and schools acting like pro-clubs nowdays means that domination by the 'big' teams will continue to be entrenched.
Trying to even out teams through drafts won't work. The mixture of cities and provincial towns puts paid to that. -
@Stargazer said in The future of NZ Rugby:
South Auckland base for planned Pasifika super rugby side
A group of former All Blacks, including two-time World Cup winner Jerome Kaino, are behind the establishment of the first professional rugby union team in Hawaii.
Kanaloa Hawaii has had its bid to join America's Major League Rugby confirmed and is now in talks with New Zealand Rugby about joining a revamped Super Rugby competition.
It would be a separate team to the one that will play in the US, and would be based in South Auckland.
Kaino and fellow former All Blacks Joe Rokocoko, John Afoa, Benson Stanley, Anthony Tuitavake and Ben Atiga are in the Kanaloa Hawaii ownership group.
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The chief executive of Kanaloa Hawaii, Tracy Atiga, told RNZ Pacific, said they have already had discussions with New Zealand Rugby about the possibility of joining a new-look Super Rugby tournament.
New Zealand Rugby is currently examining the future make up of Super Rugby and the international Rugby Championship, with its Aratipu report due to go to the board next week.
"We would essentially set up our satellite programme which is here in south Auckland to accommodate a second team," said Atiga.
"So we are not talking about one team that plays in the MLR and then they come and play in Super Rugby - we are talking about two pro teams that would have equally competitive athletes at that level and we would own and operate them in co-ordination with each other," she said.
Former All Blacks and Wallabies skills coach Mick Byrne would be head coach with former All Black Tamati Ellison assistant coach.
South Auckland base for planned Pasifika super rugby side
A Pacific Islands Super Rugby team based in South Auckland is gaining traction.
I am vehemently opposed to an ethnic Franchise based in Auckland.
I am for splitting Auckland in two geographically.
But creating an Auckland franchise based on ethnicity, get the fuck out of my life.
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I don't get why they wouldn't just base their 'pacific island' team in Hawaii.
It's a long flight, but it's direct, and it would open up the States as a market.
They could run the Super team and MLR team from the same base and contract players for tier 1 (Super) and tier 2 (MLR).
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@Stargazer said in The future of NZ Rugby:
@Rapido If they have ethnicity based criteria for signing players, I assume they'll be breaching the Human Rights Act and other legislation.
It wont really matter who they sign.
From day 1, Aucklanders of certain ethnicities will be channeled to support different teams.
But on signings, its illegal for NZRU to restrict current SR Franchises to only sign 3 non-NZ players when those non-NZ players are born and bred NZers qualified to play for parents country. But they do.
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@Rapido Why would it be illegal for NZR to restrict the signing of foreign-qualified players? The restriction is not ethinicity, cultural heritage or citizenship based, so not suspect in terms of the Human Rights Act. Unless you think that every limitation of "contract freedom" is illegal, of course. I'd be keen to know which law forbids that, though.
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I'll pu this here, because it raises a good point. At the moment it seems rugby is stuck in the era of watch the rugby, that's all you need. But big name players are wanting to pull in the big bucks, and the way to do that is to use their power to draw more people in. And they need media training to keep them safe, but not what it seems we get at the moment - toe the party line. The players talk like I was trained to in the military, fkn boring, which is the right thing when you are in the military. But they are in the entertainment business, like it or not, so they need to get out there an entertain - not just on the field. Who remembers the Canes and the Landers doing those great videos, stuff like that. I like the banter we see on Sky's panles, let's get that from players. Talks with coaches about what they see in games - WTF happened to 1016 rugby? SRA is it ATM, Oz SR is pretty lame, we should be bigging NZ rugby up around the world. In a time where everyone else is talking return to play, CV19 and wage drops, get our guys out there talking rugby and rugby life.
What the NZR needs to learn from Eddie Jones' England side to turn Super Rugby Aotearoa into something much bigger
That is the same thinking required with Super Rugby and, by extension, Super Rugby Aotearoa. It needs to be the be-all and end-all.
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@Machpants we could learn a lot form the AFL, they managed to fill any quiet with hype, the draft, transfers, tv shows (more than one)
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Hats off to the 6 Nations Boards for getting Fiji and Japan to join their party. The Uk, French and Italian boards in the face of financial armageddon have played a blinder putting a tournament together so quickly. Lots of money will come from TV, sponsorship and crowds as large as 40,000.
By contrast, NZR look very flat-footed indeed. They are isolated and friendless. Not one All Black Test scheduled for 2020. Terrible consequences in terms of player exodus to follow if they can't get their act together and fast.
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