Cricket: NZ vs Aus
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@westcoastie Tim Southee was decent in the first test. Rossco and Kane were bloody brave in that night session on the second day.
Blundell was good in the second test and OK in the first innings here.
Tom Latham's had a couple of decent innings.
But, as a unit we have crumbled badly. In Perth especially and Melbourne, the Aussie pace attack was too hot to handle. But, on this pitch, they have been less of a threat, but we haven't been good enough to make runs.
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@Damo said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Astle looked up with our best batsmen in the first innings.
Faint praise.
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Peter Fucking Fulton can fuck off forever.
Yeah, let's hire the dude with lead feet to be the batting coach.
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@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@westcoastie Tim Southee was decent in the first test. Rossco and Kane were bloody brave in that night session on the second day.
Blundell was good in the second test and OK in the first innings here.
Tom Latham's had a couple of decent innings.
But, as a unit we have crumbled badly. In Perth especially and Melbourne, the Aussie pace attack was too hot to handle. But, on this pitch, they have been less of a threat, but we haven't been good enough to make runs.
A lot of the wickets Southee took were when Australia were 50+ overs deep and very well set. Thats not his job. His is to take wickets early. Any number of our players had 10 or 15 over spells when they might've look the goods, but never good enough for long enough.
The one positive is (so long as we don't put it down as a one-off aberration) is that every single deficiency we have has been exposed. -
10 wickets for Lyon. No point sending Henry out to break himself more.
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FFS.
what a capitulation. -
@westcoastie said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
The one positive is (so long as we don't put it down as a one-off aberration) is that every single deficiency we have has been exposed.
Actually, I largely disagree with your last comment. Far too often in our cricket history we've been routed by Australia, come home with our tails between our legs, dropped a bunch of players and replaced them with people who are worse.
So, while the Aussies have exposed our deficiencies when confronted with fairly extreme pace and bounce, I think the selectors should almost totally disregard this series when picking our future teams.
We have some work-ons, but harsh reality is that unless we uncover our own versions of Cummins, Starc et al, we are not going to seriously compete with this Aussie team on Australian pitches.
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i can't begin to express how disappointed i am by this whole tour. okay, yes, i have expressed exactly that, repeatedly, throughout this thread, but, you know...
At the start i was bullish, we were finally sending a good team to Australia, and we were going to have a real crack at the Aussies, and put them back in their box. It didn't matter what they had just done to Pakistan, because we were the real deal.
And look what happens
As i always say, as a sports fan, it's the expectation that kills you.
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As opposed to laying fault at our lot..
Full credit to Australia , before the series they looked a good team on paper, and boy did they show it..
There bowling attack is world class ,and that was without Hazelwood for most of the series..
They bowled continuously at the stumps and at pace.
and with you only really need one of your batsman to have a stellar series and that’s how it panned out..
Also full credit to their skipper, Paine ,thought his glove work in the main was excellent and managed his bowlers expertly ..
Sometimes you have just got take it on the chin and admit you have well and truly been beaten by a better team..
Gotta say, really enjoyed the coverage from the Australian commentary team..superb..! -
The fact of the matter is, a whole bunch of senior players went seriously MIA on this tour. If not for heroics at certain times, Wagner's bowling, Blundell's century, the odd 50 from lower order players, our humiliation would have been far worse.
You gotta ask - how did we fall so far. Even with a great Aussie bowling lineup (and no question there) our experienced senior batsmen like Ross and Kane were woeful. Unfortunately his captaincy wasn't much better. We all know Kane is a true great, so what the hell happened?
Like others have said, it's the nature of complete capitulation here. Aussie at home were always going to be a hard ask, but we brought wet bus tickets to a gunfight. And that's what hurts most.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
i can't begin to express how disappointed i am by this whole tour. okay, yes, i have expressed exactly that, repeatedly, throughout this thread, but, you know...
At the start i was bullish, we were finally sending a good team to Australia, and we were going to have a real crack at the Aussies, and put them back in their box. It didn't matter what they had just done to Pakistan, because we were the real deal.
And look what happens
As i always say, as a sports fan, it's the expectation that kills you.
It's not the done thing, but post #3 on this thread.
@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@Xpat61 I'm too haunted.
I fear we're going to end up wishing we had a couple of 6'6 bowlers who can bowl 145+ kmh.
But, I have to say, we've been much more disappointing than I expected. I thought we'd at least be as competitive as last time we were here, but we weren't close.
The most disastrous tour in more than a decade - back to the days when Dan Vettori was our captain, coach, bus driver and team.
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@Mokey said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
You gotta ask - how did we fall so far. Even with a great Aussie bowling lineup (and no question there) our experienced senior batsmen like Ross and Kane were woeful. Unfortunately his captaincy wasn't much better. We all know Kane is a true great, so what the hell happened?
Kane? First innings in Perth was facing the pink ball under lights. I thought he and Ross were great against some of the scariest bowling I've seen.
Second innings caught Wade bowled Lyon - I can't recall.
First innings in Melbourne - a wild swipe.
Second innings - fired out by Marais.
I' suspect that first session in Perth got into our heads a bit.
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I agree with Coney that you need to prepare properly for a tour. I just don't think it would have mattered here. We didn't really become better as the tour went on. Australia were just too good in these conditions. I think we should be disappointed - most of our best batsmen got a few starts but no really big scores from them. Reality is that we needed someone to stand up like Labuschagne did.
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Well thank God that's over. I reckon a year ago we'd have given them a good shake, but Dave, Steve and now Marnus are too much for us.
In Perth I was proud of our bowling, really stuck at it despite the lack of penetration at the top, and the loss of a bowler early. Sliding doors, but there's a real scenario where we roll them for 300 and the game and series is on. Unfortunately, it just turned to shit and went downhill from there.
Positives:
Neil
CDG bowling
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... Nah I'm out.Hope the mental damage isn't sustained, we did not show up at all. Stead has to answer some questions... Why throw a debut at Lockie there without playing against England first? Bowling in Melbourne? Ffs.
Anyway it's done, bring on India.
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@hydro11 man for man they are much better team, the extra pace their bowlers generated had our batsman struggling with the extra bounce as well compared to out bowlers who did not look threatening..Wagner bowled with a ton of heart,but their were lot of deliveries that the batsmen did not have to play at and that was a common theme.
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@barbarian said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
where he is giving key batsmen out LBW, but ONLY when the ball is just clipping the outside of the stumps.
Which he shouldn't be doing. Those should be not out from the on field call.
The basic tenet being that the benefit of the doubt goes to the batsman. Which makes him poor or corrupt. Your decision, as I said.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@barbarian said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
I'll tip an Australian win, but a tied series or a Kiwi win wouldn't shock me
we're no chance. I don't think we'll win a game. 2-0 to Australia
Shit, I over-estimated us
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@Snowy (whispering)...i don't think there's actually any official mention of benefit of the doubt in any binding laws or documents...
I'm led to believe it's a brilliant rule of thumb dreamt up years ago, probably to adequately school all umpires back in the day. Stinks of something W.G. would proclaim.
Sorry snowy. But I did get umpired by Aleem once....didn't trust him all game mate🤔
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@Snowy said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@barbarian said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
where he is giving key batsmen out LBW, but ONLY when the ball is just clipping the outside of the stumps.
Which he shouldn't be doing. Those should be not out from the on field call.
The basic tenet being that the benefit of the doubt goes to the batsman. Which makes him poor or corrupt. Your decision, as I said.
I'm not opposed to the benefit of the doubt going to the umpire. As @barbarian said, they weren't great decisions, but they weren't howlers. The 'that mark could have come from anywhere'was a howler.
Jeez, we played so badly this tour
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Thank fuck its over. Now we need to clear out heads before the Indians arrive. I'm with @Chris-B. We need to figure out how to use this experience to make our batsmen better rather than clearing the decks because for the most part there are our best players.
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@Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Thank fuck its over. Now we need to clear out heads before the Indians arrive. I'm with @Chris-B. We need to figure out how to use this experience to make our batsmen better rather than clearing the decks because for the most part there are our best players.
They just need to learn how to spell D.I.S.C.I.P.L.I.N.E. know what it means and demonstrate it when they walk out to the middle
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@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@mariner4life Macca was our batting coach for five years under Hesson. The man was a coaching genius!
And he had a test batting average of 38.5. Worthy!
Worthy if you’re a number 7 or 8...
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@Donsteppa said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
The bloke who hailed this as the best Black Caps side to go to Australia should give himself uppercuts for life.
A much better comparison would be with the 94/95 Black Caps side for meek capitulations and ineffectual bowling.
What really really shits is that we were, or at least should have been.
I mean 6 of this XI are either solid first choices for a NZ All Time Test XI or are damn close too it.
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
Watling
Southee
Boult(You can throw Wags into that mix now ... we loves Wags)
Superstars by NZ standards.
Sure there were weaknesses, a second opener and a proper spinner.
But the other batsman is in the "very good" tier, and the all rounder is at least adequate.
Super disappointing to be as badly outclassed as we were.
It's been years since we've been embarrassed like that. The 45 all out v SA?
This deserves All Black loss reaction, analysis and vitriol. Does Gary Stead have a race horse we can split on?
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@ACT-Crusader said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@mariner4life Macca was our batting coach for five years under Hesson. The man was a coaching genius!
And he had a test batting average of 38.5. Worthy!
Worthy if you’re a number 7 or 8...
Or are from New Zealand:
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@mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@barbarian said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
I'll tip an Australian win, but a tied series or a Kiwi win wouldn't shock me
we're no chance. I don't think we'll win a game. 2-0 to Australia
Shit, I over-estimated us
Me too
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@Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Thank fuck its over. Now we need to clear out heads before the Indians arrive. I'm with @Chris-B. We need to figure out how to use this experience to make our batsmen better rather than clearing the decks because for the most part there are our best players.
Oh great. India.
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@booboo said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Thank fuck its over. Now we need to clear out heads before the Indians arrive. I'm with @Chris-B. We need to figure out how to use this experience to make our batsmen better rather than clearing the decks because for the most part there are our best players.
Oh great. India.
At least it's at home. And its unseasonably cold and windy at the moment ❄
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Two thoughts:
- 38.4 is an awesome average for NZ batsman.
- Erasmus is past his useby
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This is undoubtedly the best NZ team to have toured Aussie since the 80s, but I think it's shown that bowlers win you games, batsmen decide margins. I'd trade Kane for Paddles in a heartbeat.
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@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@westcoastie said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
The one positive is (so long as we don't put it down as a one-off aberration) is that every single deficiency we have has been exposed.
Actually, I largely disagree with your last comment. Far too often in our cricket history we've been routed by Australia, come home with our tails between our legs, dropped a bunch of players and replaced them with people who are worse.
So, while the Aussies have exposed our deficiencies when confronted with fairly extreme pace and bounce, I think the selectors should almost totally disregard this series when picking our future teams.
We have some work-ons, but harsh reality is that unless we uncover our own versions of Cummins, Starc et al, we are not going to seriously compete with this Aussie team on Australian pitches.
I didn't say we have to drop a bunch of players - now we know our weaknesses - we need to correct them. Can't handle pace - sort it. Develop some capable spin bowlers. Build our next gen. of pace bowlers. Find a bottle of mental fortitude and drink that stuff!
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@booboo said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Two thoughts:
- 38.4 is an awesome average for NZ batsman.
And that’s part of the problem....
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@Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
This is undoubtedly the best NZ team to have toured Aussie since the 80s, but I think it's shown that bowlers win you games, batsmen decide margins. I'd trade Kane for Paddles in a heartbeat.
Hard to argue with that.
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Even the 93/94 NZ tourists put a top score on the board that was well above 256.
When you win in Australia your top players front with performances like 188, or 9-52. Our big names this time fronted with nothing.
Who would have picked Tom Blundell to be our one and only centurion of the series?
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@Snowy @barbarian Re DRS the 1/2 ball thing for me is the key. Which makes the "it's there to eliminate the shockers argument" a bit of a sham IMO. The technology isn't perfect so to have it show the ball barely clipping a stump to me should mean the decision is not out.
This isn't really sour grapes. Our batsmen were shite and the Aussie bowling attack, Cummins in particular, were far too good - but globally umpiring standards are pretty fucking woeful and anything that improves them has to be to the benefit of the game.
In terms of the series - well we certainly had more than our fair share of bad luck with injuries, illness, lack of preparation etc but that doesn't come even close to excusing a woeful performance. I'm the most disappointed by a NZ side I ever have been and I've been watching 50 years.
Yes the Aussie attack was intimidating and relentless. Yes we probably could have rolled them 12 months ago, but yes we were bereft of ideas on how to adjust and showed a serious lack of commitment.
I'm very wary of being a keyboard warrior criticising someone for a lack of fight facing thunderbolts from the safety of my sofa, but I have seen far more limited players over the years stick around for a lot longer simply because they were determined to sell their wicket dearly. This lot seemed to mentally give up way too soon. A bit more of Chatfield's "its the only way he was going to get me out" attitude against Peter Lever would have gone a long way towards making the losses more palatable.
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@canefan said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12298419
"The former seamer"??? I know he rolled his arm over but he did a few other things too..."the only NZ captain to win a series in Australia" might be better
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So can we stop pretending this was somehow the best on paper Black Cap side to tour Oz since the 80s?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/cricket/news/article.cfm?c_id=29&objectid=12298447
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@Donsteppa said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
So can we stop pretending this was somehow the best on paper Black Cap side to tour Oz since the 80s?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/cricket/news/article.cfm?c_id=29&objectid=12298447
Just because they performed abysmally doesn't change their paper strength.
Latham, Williamson, Taylor, Watling, Boult and Wagner are all-time black cap test team contenders (or a lock in the case of Kane).
Southee, Nicholls and de Grandhomme have all proven themselves to be competent test cricketers.
Raval's lack of form and Santner's lack of threat were the only areas where we had concerns with our squad.
This was a nightmare tour where things kept going wrong and we never managed to pull up.
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I know some of our top 6 have good averages against the top 3-4 teams, but pretty much everyone folded during this series. There is a harsh but kind of fair article by an Indian writer about us being a shadow #2 as we built that off lower tier wins.
But we can only play what's in front of us so that's a bit of a meh argument. However the point stands that we got to #2 without playing the big 4 (much). Unless we get more tests against Oz, India, Eng and SA we aren't going to be able to build on that body of work. If we'd had some decent warm up games I think we'd have seen at least a 50% improvement on what we delivered (sweet fuck all really), but that Oz attack is going to take any batting top order to task imo - especially at home.I actually think I am sadder about this capitulation than our RWC exit. But in both cases you could say we were outclassed, with the difference being we expect the AB's to do that to others!!
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@Cyclops I worded it poorly, but I’ll stand by a sentiment that their notional paper strength going into the series makes their capitulation even more abysmal.
I’m also in the camp of feeling more disappointed in this performance than the RWC for some reason.
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