Do we need a World cup?
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@kev said in Do we need a World cup?:
The thing that irritates is that England never have a decent squad for their end of year tests away. The players schedules are such that lots are munted. It would be good if there was some genuine test ranking based on matches that involved the major nations playing each other with a consequence worth competing for within the 4 year period (every 2 years say).
How are the seeding for World Cups determined?
World Rankings at the time of the draw, about two years out.
Random draw in bands of 4.
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@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
NZ in 2019: played 11 won 8 lost 2 drew 1 (82%)
SA in 2019: played 12 won 10 l lost 1 drew 1 (88%)Arselicking the boks. Add the results of 2016 17 and 18 as well. You know full well you cant get a comprehensive statistical analysis of home and away results in 1 year,its not physically possible to play everyone.
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@gt12 said in Do we need a World cup?:
I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
That doesn't mean we weren't the best team though - it just means that being the best team is meaningless.
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@hydro11 said in Do we need a World cup?:
@gt12 said in Do we need a World cup?:
I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
That doesn't mean we weren't the best team though - it just means that being the best team is meaningless.
I was in Yokohama for the SF. We were definitely not the best team the way we got owned
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@canefan I could tell that from my lounge in Whangarei, saved thousands
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@canefan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@hydro11 said in Do we need a World cup?:
@gt12 said in Do we need a World cup?:
I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
That doesn't mean we weren't the best team though - it just means that being the best team is meaningless.
I was in Yokohama for the SF. We were definitely not the best team the way we got owned
For sure. It isn't obvious that we were the best team at the World Cup but it is possible to be the best team and not win it.
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@taniwharugby said in Do we need a World cup?:
@canefan I could tell that from my lounge in Whangarei, saved thousands
The way we played we barely managed to be the second best team on the track that night
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@hydro11 said in Do we need a World cup?:
@canefan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@hydro11 said in Do we need a World cup?:
@gt12 said in Do we need a World cup?:
I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
That doesn't mean we weren't the best team though - it just means that being the best team is meaningless.
I was in Yokohama for the SF. We were definitely not the best team the way we got owned
For sure. It isn't obvious that we were the best team at the World Cup but it is possible to be the best team and not win it.
Only as good as your last game. We were not as good as we thought. But yes, we were best in 1995 but gastroenteritis and the boks conspired to beat us
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i like the world cup , take it away , what do we have to look forward to ?
The rest of what we play can get a bit repetitive IMO
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WC is fine and is a showpiece event. The issue is the intervening years are now pretty much pointless bar the BIL.
Currently none of the non Rugby Championship games mean anything, the NH sides usually send their shit sides and I never feel they really want to be here. When we head north the players have travelled a million miles and played so many minutes it can be hard for them to get up for it.
I really thought the League system was a great idea that should have been fleshed out. Perhaps they should have had it in between WC much like the Euro in soccer.
I don't have the answers but the current system is not working in between WCs.
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Just had a thought.
What if you had the Rugby Championship have 6 sides (Add Japan and Fiji)
Six Nations is left as is.
You have a global season where the RC and Six Nations are played at the same time. 5 games for all teams. This keeps the NH sides happy.For the second half of the year you had say 3 Tiers of 6 based off current World Rankings.
Gold Tier (1-6)
Silver Tier (7-12)
Bronze Tier (13-18)Those 6 teams from each tier go to a nominated host country and play each other once over 5 weeks. The top team wins the Gold Tier, Silver or Bronze tier.
This would leave perhaps 2 or 3 tests each country can organise themselves maybe vs t2 or other countries, not sure.
Biggest possible issue with this system is getting a fair and accurate ranking system, because that would ultimately dictate the 3 tiers. Other issue is if one hemisphere is dominant in rankings it could be a bit shit if the Gold Tier had 4 or 5 sides from that hemisphere.
Bonus would be the games in theory be pretty competitive, the Silver and Bronze teams would all get good games against equal opposition.
Thoughts?
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Yes, it is a fantastic showcase for the sport and winning the RWC is a pinnicle of a player's career.
A RWC every two years would mean no more British and Irish Lions tours.
Two problems that need fixing in international Rugby IMHO.
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Inconsistent and poor refereeing. A short law book would help here.
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Teams deliberately sending under-strength teams.
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@sparky said in Do we need a World cup?:
Yes, it is a fantastic showcase for the sport and winning the RWC is a pinnicle of a player's career.
A RWC every two years would mean no more British and Irish Lions tours.
Two problems that need fixing in international Rugby IMHO.
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Inconsistent and poor refereeing. A short law book would help here.
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Teams deliberately sending under-strength teams.
A bit like the new UEFA Nations League, actually having points on games might reduce the amount of tanking that goes on.
Just have to convince the NH nations that balked at the idea that this is the way forward
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Other thing I would fix in payments between sides playing in the same international.
If England play Samoa at Twickenham why should the England players get £10,000 each and the Samoa £150 each. Gate receipts need to be shared more equally with touring teams given a minimum 30% share.
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@sparky said in Do we need a World cup?:
Other thing I would fix in payments between sides playing in the same international.
If England play Samoa at Twickenham why should the England players get £10,000 each and the Samoa £150 each. Gate receipts need to be shared more equally with touring teams given a minimum 30% share
Yeah this system needs fixing but is so bloody complicated, you may get touring teams demanding a certain sized stadium as it isn't worth their while going to Nelson Vs Eden Park. It is actually interesting that NZRU actually does forgo the profits of Eden Park to share the All Blacks around the country.
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@sparky said in Do we need a World cup?:
Other thing I would fix in payments between sides playing in the same international.
If England play Samoa at Twickenham why should the England players get £10,000 each and the Samoa £150 each. Gate receipts need to be shared more equally with touring teams given a minimum 30% share.
I don't mind them having some sort of ranking system or formula, so that a bit like boxing the higher ranked opponent gets more money. But at least it will be a little more equitable and there will be some transparency
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@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
NZ in 2019: played 11 won 8 lost 2 drew 1 (82%)
SA in 2019: played 12 won 10 l lost 1 drew 1 (88%)Arselicking the boks. Add the results of 2016 17 and 18 as well. You know full well you cant get a comprehensive statistical analysis of home and away results in 1 year,its not physically possible to play everyone.
No need to be crass.
Just pointing out that if you try hard enough you can find a metric that has the ABs as the best.
But in terms of this World Cup we're not. We lost the semi final.
We lost.
Suck.
It.
Up.
It took me the the 95 RWC to accept the 91 RWC.
I'm kind of guessing you don't extend back that far?
If you do I'm surprised you've learned nothing in 28 years.
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This is the kind of topic that SA fans in 2019 and NZ fans in 2015 and 2011 etc wouldn't debate...
UEFA Nations League - Wikipedia
