England & Eddie
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@kiwiinmelb said in England & Eddie:
Someone may come up with some stats to show im wrong ,
But I think Eddie will be remembered more as a guy capable of masterminding a one off massive win more than anything else , and that in itself still deserves some respect , but losing 2 finals , he will have the bridesmaid tag now, unless he can win one .
Allblacks 2003, Boks, 2015 , Allblacks 2019 are his one off moments of WC glory
I'll give him a nod for being part of the Boks' 2007 effort. But as an assistant.
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@MiketheSnow to be fair to Daly he didn't get as many chances as le Roux (who made me laugh about him being the saffa Jordie in the first few minutes).
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@Bones said in England & Eddie:
@MiketheSnow to be fair to Daly he didn't get as many chances as le Roux (who made me laugh about him being the saffa Jordie in the first few minutes).
Thank christ. Everything he touched turned to shit.
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@booboo said in England & Eddie:
@sparky said in England & Eddie:
Very good piece by Jonathan Liew;
For some reason our old friend the Walrus has lost his sh*t with him:
Doesn't look like the article Jones was referring to in that tweet
I think it was an interview Lies did with Sean Fitzpatrick that annoyed Jones.
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@MiketheSnow said in England & Eddie:
@hydro11 said in England & Eddie:
Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....
Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.
- 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.
- 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
- 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.
Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.
Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.
People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.
Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.
Not sure about this and commented on it earlier.
England's schedule was tough on paper - and I wrote before the tournament started that England wouldn't win the WC because they had Argentina, France, Wales/Australia, SA/NZ, SA/NZ on the trot - but the reality was very different.
They comfortably beat a 14-man Argentina; the France match was cancelled; and they comfortably beat an average Australia side who'd already lost to Wales.
They produced one of the performances of the decade by dismantling NZ in the SF but really that was their only serious challenge prior to the Final.
Conversely SA had to play NZ first up; then a very good Japanese side who were unbeaten with wins over Ireland and Scotland, in the QF; then Wales who were also unbeaten, in the SF.
For me, SA had the harder path - admittedly losing to NZ didn't derail their progress.
Eddie has done wonders with England but he made some fatal flaws this tournament and in the years leading up to it.
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Sinckler.
Great tournament. But if his best back up is Dan Coles then you're always going to struggle if Sinckler gets a YC or an early injury. -
Youngs
Great going forward. Shithouse going backwards. I would have yanked him at half-time. Spencer couldn't have been any worse. -
Daly
Great athlete, average full-back. Exposed badly today. Willie looked like Cullen in comparison. -
May
He was carrying an injury. Barrett caught him ffs. No way Barrett was catching Watson. -
Slade
Not match fit and made significant mistakes in the games he played in -
Ford
This was not the match to start Ford -
No nasty fluffybunny in the forwards
England have great, technical athletes in all positions but no real hard bastard in the Martin Johnson mould who can bollock them.
Lawes was stuffed twice by Kolbe ffs
How's that for starters?
Strongly disagree with this. Pool play is a bit of an irrelevancy unless you have a tough pool. The New Zealand vs South Africa game happened a long time ago and both teams were going to beat Wales. Japan had had two very good victories but were unlikely to have the physicality to beat South Africa in that game. Japan had already played their final. Wales may have been unbeaten but they were exceptionally poor in the semi final and couldn't threaten the South African line.
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@hydro11 said in England & Eddie:
@MiketheSnow said in England & Eddie:
@hydro11 said in England & Eddie:
Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....
Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.
- 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.
- 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
- 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.
Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.
Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.
People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.
Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.
Not sure about this and commented on it earlier.
England's schedule was tough on paper - and I wrote before the tournament started that England wouldn't win the WC because they had Argentina, France, Wales/Australia, SA/NZ, SA/NZ on the trot - but the reality was very different.
They comfortably beat a 14-man Argentina; the France match was cancelled; and they comfortably beat an average Australia side who'd already lost to Wales.
They produced one of the performances of the decade by dismantling NZ in the SF but really that was their only serious challenge prior to the Final.
Conversely SA had to play NZ first up; then a very good Japanese side who were unbeaten with wins over Ireland and Scotland, in the QF; then Wales who were also unbeaten, in the SF.
For me, SA had the harder path - admittedly losing to NZ didn't derail their progress.
Eddie has done wonders with England but he made some fatal flaws this tournament and in the years leading up to it.
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Sinckler.
Great tournament. But if his best back up is Dan Coles then you're always going to struggle if Sinckler gets a YC or an early injury. -
Youngs
Great going forward. Shithouse going backwards. I would have yanked him at half-time. Spencer couldn't have been any worse. -
Daly
Great athlete, average full-back. Exposed badly today. Willie looked like Cullen in comparison. -
May
He was carrying an injury. Barrett caught him ffs. No way Barrett was catching Watson. -
Slade
Not match fit and made significant mistakes in the games he played in -
Ford
This was not the match to start Ford -
No nasty fluffybunny in the forwards
England have great, technical athletes in all positions but no real hard bastard in the Martin Johnson mould who can bollock them.
Lawes was stuffed twice by Kolbe ffs
How's that for starters?
Strongly disagree with this. Pool play is a bit of an irrelevancy unless you have a tough pool. The New Zealand vs South Africa game happened a long time ago and both teams were going to beat Wales. Japan had had two very good victories but were unlikely to have the physicality to beat South Africa in that game. Japan had already played their final. Wales may have been unbeaten but they were exceptionally poor in the semi final and couldn't threaten the South African line.
Not for the first time today I've questioned whether posters watched the SA v Wales SF.
We scored a try. A good one. England couldn't today, despite 20 odd stabs at it in one passage of play.
It was 16-16 going in to the last 10 minutes.
We had two opportunities to take the lead and blew both.
SA had one chance in the last 5 minutes and took it.
So if we were exceptionally poor, then SA were just poor.
SA didn't do much different tonight, so England lost to a poor team.
Not buying it.
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you do have to wonder if that cancelled round had an impact on England this week and NZ last week.
We see the bye round in super rugby is rarely a good thing.
Looking at all potential last rounds...
NZ - Ire-Eng-SA
SA - Japan-Wales-Eng
Wales - France-SA-Eng
Eng - Aus-NZ-SASA slightly easier on paper with Japan, but you could argue NZ/Eng had the easier quarters when you look at scores alone.
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@MiketheSnow harder path my ass.
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@MiketheSnow they beat Japan and Wales who both wouldn't beat any NZ super franchises.
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@geebee said in England & Eddie:
@MiketheSnow they beat Japan and Wales who both wouldn't beat any NZ super franchises.
👏👏👏
God help Ireland, Scotland, Australia, France, Samoa and Fiji then.
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@hydro11 said in England & Eddie:
Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....
Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.
- 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.
- 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
- 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.
Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.
Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.
People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.
Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.
Stephen Jones doesn't read my shit!?
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@Bones said in England & Eddie:
@sparky I assume the walrus would have to attend and watch rugby to see anyone else there.
Having watched a lot of games the Walrus writes his drivel about, I have doubts he even watches any himself
The clown boldly stated England were robbed when they lost to us in November, quoting rules which were 5 years out of date FFS.
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Eddie Jones? My two cents.
Been telling people for a while I've had a suspicion he inherited a promising team Lancaster had put together and built on it, but would crash at the final hurdle as he has done in the past. He was uber-successful for a couple of years but the wheels started coming off about 18 months ago and I always thought England would struggle in tournaments like the RWC as they have in the last 2 6N's.
They were good against a woeful Oz and beat us well in the SF, but they were really, really poor today. That performance was, at times, embarrassing for an English supporter. Probably the poorest I've seen from a side in a RWC Final - during the game and after the whistle.
Seems to me a lot of the players have a serious attitude problem - if the players are a reflection of the coach, then he needs to take some of the blame
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@Bones said in England & Eddie:
@hydro11 Sinckler would have got destroyed in the scrums.
But given them a heap more around the field. Cole is a serial offender - who got away with his offside at every ruck and maul last night - and not a ball runner like Sinckler.
The kid might be a tool, but can play.
@Bones said in England & Eddie:
So why would you need to rip off your medal on camera if it doesn't matter? Unless you're trying to prove some point. Seems like being a sore loser to me to have to show petulance.
Who says they even knew - or gave 2 knobs of goat shit - whether a camera was on them.
As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.
And you're well within your rights to think they're arrogant douchecopters, but just remember: look too long into the abyss, and you'll find it starts looking back into you
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I've no idea what the terms of Eddie's contract are - how long he has left - but when he does leave it could be the perfect time to give Lancaster a ring.
As time goes on I read and hear more and more of what a solid foundation Lancaster laid down.
And if not him, someone like him.
England needs a hardnosed English coach.
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@NTA said in England & Eddie:
As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.
They're professionals who are representing England Rugby FFS. Their behaviour left a sour taste and gave the impression of bad losers.
That they didn't realize this or didn't give s stuff says a lot for the team's attitude and that of the management team - a fish rots from the head down as the Chinese say.
England's World Cup final agony and the questions left unanswered
