Super Rugby 2020
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2020:
The most worrying thing I've felt with the reffing is that it seems to happen in rolls and it seems to even up. The Chiefs were getting away with lots in the first half and the Blues were getting hammered and it seemed to reverse in the 2nd. (Someone will be along with the actual penalty stats to prove me wrong soon
).Given that the refs are adjusting also it is entirely possible that claims by captains that the other side is doing the same thing and getting away with it register with them and they start looking for 'even ups'.
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2020:
The most worrying thing I've felt with the reffing is that it seems to happen in rolls and it seems to even up. The Chiefs were getting away with lots in the first half and the Blues were getting hammered and it seemed to reverse in the 2nd. (Someone will be along with the actual penalty stats to prove me wrong soon
).Very much the way it felt to me too. The Crusaders got hammered in the first half and then it all went their way in the second .
As @Crucial has just said it appears to been a case of "I can't end the game with a 25 to 5 penalty count."
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Can one of you take the time to see if the refs are favouring the attacking or defensive teams? I haven't felt a particular bias, but teams are certainly getting on a roll. One penalty seems to rapidly turn into three.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2020:
Can one of you take the time to see if the refs are favouring the attacking or defensive teams? I haven't felt a particular bias, but teams are certainly getting on a roll. One penalty seems to rapidly turn into three.
I think it is more a case of the refs trying to 'educate' the teams on the new rulings. Ping them once then keep looking to see if they have got the message. So they are then looking harder at that team until it swings to the other side doing something.
Favours the attacking side until a defender finally manages a legal turnover attempt then that lesson has to be taught. -
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2020:
Can one of you take the time to see if the refs are favouring the attacking or defensive teams? I haven't felt a particular bias, but teams are certainly getting on a roll. One penalty seems to rapidly turn into three.
Actually against the attacking team is the way I perceived it. Loads for diving over, off feet, sealing off. Preventing the contest for the ball. The defenders don't actually need to do much but stand there and wait, hence my uncontested rucks comments.
I think that is what looks weird when the attacking team gets pinged the whole time.
It hasn't mattered so much because they will then lose the resulting lineout and the opposition will be the attacking team to give away the penalty - repeat. -
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2020:
@Bones said in Super Rugby 2020:
Oh and plenty of whinging about all the "shit" refs. So it appears there isn't a half decent ref in NZ as a ref is always deemed not worthy by groups of people.
Our poor players having to deal with such substandard ineptitude. These games are clearly free of infringements yet that's not how they're being reffed.
Consistency in rulings is what you want. Uncertainty doesn't lead to a good game.
I don' t think the current group are terrible, but I don't think they are top drawer either. Great referees are hard to find these days, and the laws haven't helped for the last decade or so
I haven't noticed inconsistency. I've thought the refs have been doing well - dealing with new focuses and players just not adjusting. I feel like the new sport now is to try and lambast the refs.
If teams are being hammered in the first half and then not in the second - hey maybe they're adjusting? They were the winning teams right?
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@Snowy said in Super Rugby 2020:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2020:
Can one of you take the time to see if the refs are favouring the attacking or defensive teams? I haven't felt a particular bias, but teams are certainly getting on a roll. One penalty seems to rapidly turn into three.
Actually against the attacking team is the way I perceived it. Loads for diving over, off feet, sealing off. Preventing the contest for the ball. The defenders don't actually need to do much but stand there and wait, hence my uncontested rucks comments.
I think that is what looks weird when the attacking team gets pinged the whole time.
It hasn't mattered so much because they will then lose the resulting lineout and the opposition will be the attacking team to give away the penalty - repeat.I donât have any stats to back it up but this is my overwhelming impression too. The attacking teams are getting pinged all over the place. Coming in the side and making and extra movement on the ground are other ones that have increased for the team with the ball. The only ones i can think of for the defence are the strip after a player has got a knee down and possibly a small increase in offside.
It seems way too easy now for the defence to just wait a few phases and get half a hand on the ball at a ruck And win the turnover penalty.It completely kills the flow of the game because as soon as a team gets any attacking momentum they get pinged for something at the ruck and game turns into a stop start mess.
I dare say that if they want to go down the track of all these ruck penalties then they should be looking to do what they did years ago and award a free kick only rather than full penalty. At least then you might get a bit more âplayâ rather than endless kicks and lineouts. -
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2020:
It seems way too easy now for the defence to just wait a few phases and get half a hand on the ball at a ruck And win the turnover penalty.
Definitely not the impression I get. Teams on defence are rightly being pinged for not actually going at the ball or doing it illegally.
All the other stuff you mentioned is teams getting pinged for infringing. Is that really what we want to complain about?
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I still think there has been a decent contest at the ruck, but attacking players joining the ruck have not adjusted and havenât kept their feet. The refs havenât been very tolerant of that. And thatâs not because a tackler/defender has a hand in the ball either.
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A small bugbear of mine is people complaining a tackler was "pinned" and there was no way he could roll away. Sure, that might happen and get called wrongly in a very small number of cases where an awkward tackle occurs - but people need to look at the tackler and how they put themselves there in the first place also. 99 times out of 100 if a player is obstructing the ball they weren't helpless in ending up where they are (it's science).
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@Bones said in Super Rugby 2020:
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2020:
It seems way too easy now for the defence to just wait a few phases and get half a hand on the ball at a ruck And win the turnover penalty.
Definitely not the impression I get. Teams on defence are rightly being pinged for not actually going at the ball or doing it illegally.
All the other stuff you mentioned is teams getting pinged for infringing. Is that really what we want to complain about?
Getting pinged for not going at the ball correctly? I canât say i have noticed that. Being told to leave it maybe but I havenât seen them getting penalised.
And itâs all well and good to say they are infringing but there needs to be a balance. The old cliche of âyou could blow a penalty at just about every ruckâ is true. Players leave their feet at just about every ruck. Players play the ball with their hands at just about every ruck. Players arenât properly bound before entering just about every ruck. The list is endless. Most of these things which are technically infringements have zero impact on the game. Blowing penalties for those sorts of things has a huge impact on the game. It definitely doesnât make for a good, free flowing, entertaining game.
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@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2020:
@Bones said in Super Rugby 2020:
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2020:
It seems way too easy now for the defence to just wait a few phases and get half a hand on the ball at a ruck And win the turnover penalty.
Definitely not the impression I get. Teams on defence are rightly being pinged for not actually going at the ball or doing it illegally.
All the other stuff you mentioned is teams getting pinged for infringing. Is that really what we want to complain about?
Getting pinged for not going at the ball correctly? I canât say i have noticed that. Being told to leave it maybe but I havenât seen them getting penalised.
And itâs all well and good to say they are infringing but there needs to be a balance. The old cliche of âyou could blow a penalty at just about every ruckâ is true. Players leave their feet at just about every ruck. Players play the ball with their hands at just about every ruck. Players arenât properly bound before entering just about every ruck. The list is endless. Most of these things which are technically infringements have zero impact on the game. Blowing penalties for those sorts of things has a huge impact on the game. It definitely doesnât make for a good, free flowing, entertaining game.
It does if the players don't infringe.
I'm pretty astounded you haven't noticed the players getting penalised on the defence for no release of the tackled player, off their feet, hands on the ground, going to ground, not on feet, second go, not playing the ball but playing the player, etc etc.
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Full replays of the first two rounds here (until they get taken down by copywrite?) -
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@Bones said in Super Rugby 2020:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2020:
@Bones said in Super Rugby 2020:
Oh and plenty of whinging about all the "shit" refs. So it appears there isn't a half decent ref in NZ as a ref is always deemed not worthy by groups of people.
Our poor players having to deal with such substandard ineptitude. These games are clearly free of infringements yet that's not how they're being reffed.
Consistency in rulings is what you want. Uncertainty doesn't lead to a good game.
I don' t think the current group are terrible, but I don't think they are top drawer either. Great referees are hard to find these days, and the laws haven't helped for the last decade or so
I haven't noticed inconsistency. I've thought the refs have been doing well - dealing with new focuses and players just not adjusting. I feel like the new sport now is to try and lambast the refs.
If teams are being hammered in the first half and then not in the second - hey maybe they're adjusting? They were the winning teams right?
I dunno, I've just been re-watching the Blues Chiefs and there's a whole lot of stuff being let go and occasionally pinged. Clear and obvious is always called, but some of the calls are super harsh at times, and then tolerant other times. I'm all for clarifying the tackle/collision area, and applying the laws is hard, but I think the refs could do better.
Honestly, it is consistency; all players and fans want to know is where the boundaries are, and are they consistently enforced. I think it's beter than previous years, but when we're averaging three times as many penalties as scrums in the game, refs are going to come under some scrutiny.
I think not replaying penalties is good for the casual fan, but super irritating for anoraks like me.
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2020:
I think not replaying penalties is good for the casual fan, but super irritating for anoraks like me.
at first i thought it was weird. but then i realised i just want to know i was hard done by, not just suspect i was hard done by. And the commentators couldn't fuel my outrage. So i could really get used to it i think
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@mariner4life I know.
I think it's better for Rugby overall. Still annoying though - it's so hard not to dissect the performance of a ref when they are shafting you
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FYI: I've updated all injuries again on the squad lists.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12342594
Lawrence also admitted referee Ben O'Keeffe wrongly ruled a penalty against the Blues during their win over the Chiefs, which resulted in a Dalton Papalii yellow card after he was judged to have illegally stolen the ball in the ruck. He clarified that the mistake came because of an illegal use of the "squeeze ball" by the Chiefs â where the ball is placed between the legs of the ball carrier while kneeling on the ground facing the opposition.
"We believe our decision was wrong ... we believe he should've been rewarded either with the penalty or if not the penalty let him then go forward and then pick it up the second time.
"We had a long discussion about that clip. We're having to work out what the 'squeeze ball' means again because it hasn't been in play for a couple of years. But all the teams are using it to protect the ball. We had a great discussion and then Fozzie (Foster) came in with exactly that clip and reconfirmed our thinking.""
