Southland Rugby
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Bit of chat about Southland this morning on RS and while I only heard a little of it, I did hear the inevitable promotion/relegation chat.
My opinion is that there's little point in bringing back this game.
There is still a gulf between the worst 'Div 1' side and the top Heartland side which would be insurmountable short-term. Even if they somehow won, I could'nt see likes of Thames Valley collating the playing resources over an off-season to be competitive in Div 1, and then they'd be back in the promotion/relegation game again. Meanwhile the better-resourced Southland union rampages through the Heartland comp into the promotion game with the single-minded intent of getting back to Div 1.
They're going through a particularly bad patch - with no end in sight - but 'bad patch' is the pertinent phrase. This'll come to an end sooner or later and it'll be Northland or Manawatu or BOP at the bottom for an extended period and the cycle will continue.
Remember, Ta$man have the smallest base in the comp and they'll probably win the whole thing this year.
Thoughts?
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@shark yeah I dont think we have the depth/width of talent still in NZ for any of the Heartland teams to be truly competitive, thats without taking into consideration the issues around the facilities at the grounds for players and broadcasting, that I expect owuld be a bit of a problem at many of the Heartland teams.
As a Northland fan, I feel for Southland, they are in a hole, and seems no way out, we have been there too
The other thing they were saying on RS is there are still good kids coming through thier schoolboy systems, SRU obviously need to look at how to retain them and/or attract some of them back.
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@shark said in Southland Rugby:
Bit of chat about Southland this morning on RS and while I only heard a little of it, I did hear the inevitable promotion/relegation chat.
My opinion is that there's little point in bringing back this game.
There is still a gulf between the worst 'Div 1' side and the top Heartland side which would be insurmountable short-term. Even if they somehow won, I could'nt see likes of Thames Valley collating the playing resources over an off-season to be competitive in Div 1, and then they'd be back in the promotion/relegation game again. Meanwhile the better-resourced Southland union rampages through the Heartland comp into the promotion game with the single-minded intent of getting back to Div 1.
They're going through a particularly bad patch - with no end in sight - but 'bad patch' is the pertinent phrase. This'll come to an end sooner or later and it'll be Northland or Manawatu or BOP at the bottom for an extended period and the cycle will continue.
Remember, Ta$man have the smallest base in the comp and they'll probably win the whole thing this year.
Thoughts?
Imagine Thames Valley or East Coast away to Ta$man or Canterbury?? I think people would get hurt due to the gulf in class.
We don't need to "fix' a competition because one team is utterly hopeless
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@Hooroo said in Southland Rugby:
@shark said in Southland Rugby:
Bit of chat about Southland this morning on RS and while I only heard a little of it, I did hear the inevitable promotion/relegation chat.
My opinion is that there's little point in bringing back this game.
There is still a gulf between the worst 'Div 1' side and the top Heartland side which would be insurmountable short-term. Even if they somehow won, I could'nt see likes of Thames Valley collating the playing resources over an off-season to be competitive in Div 1, and then they'd be back in the promotion/relegation game again. Meanwhile the better-resourced Southland union rampages through the Heartland comp into the promotion game with the single-minded intent of getting back to Div 1.
They're going through a particularly bad patch - with no end in sight - but 'bad patch' is the pertinent phrase. This'll come to an end sooner or later and it'll be Northland or Manawatu or BOP at the bottom for an extended period and the cycle will continue.
Remember, Ta$man have the smallest base in the comp and they'll probably win the whole thing this year.
Thoughts?
Imagine Thames Valley or East Coast away to Ta$man or Canterbury?? I think people would get hurt due to the gulf in class.
We don't need to "fix' a competition because one team is utterly hopeless
Agree.
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I know there has been comments about the poor quality of club rugby in the province but it is as simple as not having the player resources and finances to field a competitive team? Maybe the Highlanders are also partially to blame as they don't have many home-grown players in their squad, so there isn't a pathway for the local players from Southland. Southland BHS should provide a good talent pool of players if they can retain them, and develop them.
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It's not an issue that Promotion/Relegation will solve. I agree that it will just cause an ongoing merry-go-round.
However, I'm also not convinced that this is a temporary issue at Southland. They have been having big struggles with Club Rugby for some time with clubs getting weaker and weaker before dropping out.
At one stage it looked like the excellent sports studies and zero fees at the SIT would bolster the club comp by attracting young players but that didn't work as the numbers weren't large enough and only succeeded in strengthening one club above others who then felt hard done by.
The televising f schools rugby also didn't help as promising players were easily scouted by other more attractive provinces instead of just finding their own pathway.
NZRU need to help find the solution here with a bit of lateral thinking. Maybe come to a deal with other unions to use Southland as a finishing school? Maybe help the club comp with some new thoughts to make a strong local comp? -
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@Tim said in Southland Rugby:
Chop the NPC down to 11 teams - 10 round robin games, less squad weakness.
Sad for Southland but I think that may really be the best solution. I don't think Southland would be massively stronger than other Heartland sides
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@Wurzel said in Southland Rugby:
Would merging the Southland club comp with the Otago Country Sub Union help? I know Mid Canterbury and Ellesmere Sub Union play together.
That would cover an even larger geographic area and one of the biggest problems Southland have had to deal with is club numbers from low population density over a large area. As rugby player numbers in general dropped and rugby became not the only sporting pastime, getting players to commit to hours of travel to reach another team didn't help.
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@Tim said in Southland Rugby:
Chop the NPC down to 11 teams - 10 round robin games, less squad weakness.
11? So drop Southland and 2 more teams? Who? Why 2 more? To accommodate a one-division competition?
Sorry, but I think that would be terrible as the pathway to SR would become more difficult. All teams, except maybe Southland, currently contribute to the development of future SR players. If you want to kill off club rugby, esp in the smaller provinces (because, of course, you wouldn't chop a bigger province from the M10 Cup, would you?) and decrease depth in NZ rugby, then your idea might be okay, but I don't think that's what anybody wants?
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Would a talent restriction work out? Like the old days where you play for province and super rugby team in the area. Not saying I'd be in favour but look at Ta$man who could be a Super Rugby team and look at Southland who are a club side with Marty McKenzie added to it.
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@Stargazer Strict NZRFU level salary cap for all teams set maybe?
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@Stargazer Like you play for the Highlanders but have to be signed with Southland or Otago (or North Otago but whatever). So you HAVE to play for a province from your Super Rugby area.
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@Crucial said in Southland Rugby:
@Wurzel said in Southland Rugby:
Would merging the Southland club comp with the Otago Country Sub Union help? I know Mid Canterbury and Ellesmere Sub Union play together.
That would cover an even larger geographic area and one of the biggest problems Southland have had to deal with is club numbers from low population density over a large area. As rugby player numbers in general dropped and rugby became not the only sporting pastime, getting players to commit to hours of travel to reach another team didn't help.
When I visited the Southland museum there was a display showing all of the Southland rugby clubs. From Bluff in the south to Te Anau in the north.
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@Stargazer Not at all. Having an equal salary cap for all competing teams to abide by will see players having to move if they wish to play professionally in New Zealand as you can only fit so many players under the limit in each province. It does have its cheat side (a la NRL) however with brown envelopes and employment (for want of a better word), "endorsements" etc being arranged for players by sponsors etc whereby the employee is an employee in name only.
