Southland Rugby
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@Tim said in Southland Rugby:
Chop the NPC down to 11 teams - 10 round robin games, less squad weakness.
Sad for Southland but I think that may really be the best solution. I don't think Southland would be massively stronger than other Heartland sides
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@Wurzel said in Southland Rugby:
Would merging the Southland club comp with the Otago Country Sub Union help? I know Mid Canterbury and Ellesmere Sub Union play together.
That would cover an even larger geographic area and one of the biggest problems Southland have had to deal with is club numbers from low population density over a large area. As rugby player numbers in general dropped and rugby became not the only sporting pastime, getting players to commit to hours of travel to reach another team didn't help.
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@Tim said in Southland Rugby:
Chop the NPC down to 11 teams - 10 round robin games, less squad weakness.
11? So drop Southland and 2 more teams? Who? Why 2 more? To accommodate a one-division competition?
Sorry, but I think that would be terrible as the pathway to SR would become more difficult. All teams, except maybe Southland, currently contribute to the development of future SR players. If you want to kill off club rugby, esp in the smaller provinces (because, of course, you wouldn't chop a bigger province from the M10 Cup, would you?) and decrease depth in NZ rugby, then your idea might be okay, but I don't think that's what anybody wants?
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Would a talent restriction work out? Like the old days where you play for province and super rugby team in the area. Not saying I'd be in favour but look at Ta$man who could be a Super Rugby team and look at Southland who are a club side with Marty McKenzie added to it.
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@Stargazer Strict NZRFU level salary cap for all teams set maybe?
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@Stargazer Like you play for the Highlanders but have to be signed with Southland or Otago (or North Otago but whatever). So you HAVE to play for a province from your Super Rugby area.
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@Crucial said in Southland Rugby:
@Wurzel said in Southland Rugby:
Would merging the Southland club comp with the Otago Country Sub Union help? I know Mid Canterbury and Ellesmere Sub Union play together.
That would cover an even larger geographic area and one of the biggest problems Southland have had to deal with is club numbers from low population density over a large area. As rugby player numbers in general dropped and rugby became not the only sporting pastime, getting players to commit to hours of travel to reach another team didn't help.
When I visited the Southland museum there was a display showing all of the Southland rugby clubs. From Bluff in the south to Te Anau in the north.
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@Stargazer Not at all. Having an equal salary cap for all competing teams to abide by will see players having to move if they wish to play professionally in New Zealand as you can only fit so many players under the limit in each province. It does have its cheat side (a la NRL) however with brown envelopes and employment (for want of a better word), "endorsements" etc being arranged for players by sponsors etc whereby the employee is an employee in name only.
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@Yeetyaah Righto. That's a 'no' from me. Look at this situation.
Province A is in SR catchment X.
SR franchise X has a bias towards signing players from province B.
Some very good players from province A - overlooked by SR franchise X - sign a contract with SR franchise Z.
They would be forced to move from province A to a province in the catchment of franchise Z.
Province A loses some very good players.Some players signed by franchise X from other provinces than Province A (including from outside its catchment) have to be allocated to provinces inside catchment X.
Province A has to contract non-local players from other provinces, who'd prefer to play for their home province but have to play in catchment X instead.Great motivation for both province and player.
The province loses its own players and get players forced on them from other catchements.
Players from other catchments are forced to player for another province than their own. -
@Stargazer said in Southland Rugby:
@Yeetyaah Righto. That's a 'no' from me. Look at this situation.
Province A is in SR catchment X.
SR franchise X has a bias towards signing players from province B.
Some very good players from province A - overlooked by SR franchise X - sign a contract with SR franchise Z.
They would be forced to move from province A to a province in the catchment of franchise Z.
Province A loses some very good players.Some players signed by franchise X from other provinces than Province A (including from outside its catchment) have to be allocated to provinces inside catchment X.
Province A has to contract non-local players from other provinces, who'd prefer to play for their home province but have to play in catchment X instead.Great motivation for both province and player.
The province loses its own players and get players forced on them from other catchements.
Players from other catchments are forced to player for another province than their own.I'm interested in what you think the answer is?
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@Bovidae Southland is quite a bit bigger in area than Northland, but the trip from Bluff to Te Anau is shorter driving time than Wellsford to Kaitaia.
This conversation comes up every half dozen years or so, I think there has been sufficient investment by local bodies and NZR that the 14 teams currently playing, will continue unless something significant happens which requires a major re-shaping of NZR, which may be on the cards down the track, but can't see it in the next few years at least.
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@Stargazer said in Southland Rugby:
@Hooroo Why would I have the answer, if even NZRU doesn't seem to have one?
I don't think the NZRU is looking for an answer to this. I'm just interested in your thoughts as you seem to know why it won't work
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@taniwharugby said in Southland Rugby:
@Bovidae Southland is quite a bit bigger in area than Northland, but the trip from Bluff to Te Anau is shorter driving time than Wellsford to Kaitaia.
Yes, but having driven a lot around both Southland and Northland on recent holidays I know which road trip I'd prefer in the winter. Not as many vehicles on the road down south, of course.
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@Higgins said in Southland Rugby:
@Stargazer Not at all. Having an equal salary cap for all competing teams to abide by will see players having to move if they wish to play professionally in New Zealand as you can only fit so many players under the limit in each province. It does have its cheat side (a la NRL) however with brown envelopes and employment (for want of a better word), "endorsements" etc being arranged for players by sponsors etc whereby the employee is an employee in name only.
I see it as punishing provinces for their success in developing players up to the level of SR. After all, if they develop a lot of club players into SR players, the salaries of these players will go up. The next season, they can't sign all of them anymore, because they'd go over the salary cap. So players are forced to move provinces (which I'm pertinently against) and provinces, who provide good development programmes and are successful in creating a good SR pathway, lose the players they have successfully developed. And then they have to develop new players, or have to sign less talented players from other provinces.
