NBA season 2019/20
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@mariner4life said in NBA season 2019/20:
@shark if he's really the #2 player int he league, then the Bulls are a genuine title threat without MJ. They absolutely were not.
2 great episodes. And only 2 left for 2 great series? I am going to feel a little cheated.
First time you had people from teh Bulls outwardly saying he was an asshole. and then comes the "but..."
I love MJ even more now than i did before.
I love watching these great teams and thinking about what can be learned from them and applied to rugby (specifically the ABs). Without having any specific knowledge, I'm looking at recent AB teams (last 4 years) and wondering if there has been a guy (or guys) like MJ consistently pushing high standards throughout the team and, more importantly, pushing them hard.
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@voodoo said in NBA season 2019/20:
The thing with this doco, is that they have a massively wide-ranging audience. There are some non-bball fans or high-level fans watching who love the background stories, the personal stuff, the high school and college bits, the baseball season and the stuff about his dad.
Personally, that is not what I signed up for.
It's called The Last Dance, supposedly full of inside footage of the final season. But what has become clear is that they have stretched footage designed for a 60-90 minute doco into a 10 part series, and they've padded it with stacks of old footage and storylines that we have seen before.
The new interviews are great, but what I really want to see at least from here is the true behind the scene footage of this Indiana series and then the finals. Footage from every game then what happens afterwards. How they prepared for the next game, adjustments made etc.
I don't think I'll get this, but I'll keep watching anyway.
Agree with this. I think they gloss over some of the individual games and series too often. Also, their narrative around some games seems a little bit off. They present it as an MJ masterclass, where he destroyed his individual opponent and the opposition, but then show a scorecard with an 8-point victory. To me, that suggests there was a bit of a tussle.
Also, I think they missed a bit of a trick in demonstrating the strength of the league as a whole during the 90s. If you watched it, you'd assume that MJ was the only superstar in the league. He wasn't - there were so many great players in the league at that time and you only have to look at who didn't make the Dream Team to demonstrate that.
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@junior its funny because I'm not getting the feeling that he is being portrayed as the only superstar in the league. But I followed his entire career from 87-2001(not saying you didn't) so I'm biased. I think that's also probably why I don't need the family back story as much as others do. I know a lot of that already and it's not important to the story they are trying to tell.
I just think if you were expecting a doco where they were going to tell you about his inner demons etc they covered his gambling and his father's death. That's enough or me. US$168m was paid out to his ex so maybe that's why he's not paying her much lip service.
@barbarian said in NBA season 2019/20:
I don't need a full episode on his personal life, but a mention of a wedding (who was best man? Did he invite any teammates?),
There is no place in sports for Womens Day comments like this:face_with_stuck-out_tongue_closed_eyes:
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@raznomore said in NBA season 2019/20:
There is no place in sports for Womens Day comments like this:face_with_stuck-out_tongue_closed_eyes:
Normally I'd agree with you but given the way his teammates talk about him in the doco I don't think any of them considered MJ to be their friend. So if he had 250 at his wedding but no teammates I'd find that interesting.
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@barbarian said in NBA season 2019/20:
@raznomore said in NBA season 2019/20:
There is no place in sports for Womens Day comments like this:face_with_stuck-out_tongue_closed_eyes:
Normally I'd agree with you but given the way his teammates talk about him in the doco I don't think any of them considered MJ to be their friend. So if he had 250 at his wedding but no teammates I'd find that interesting.
That's a comment straight out of Draft Day, great movie!
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I agree its fucken weird there is no family stuff thus far beside his folks and siblings. You'd think he was single throughout, except there is no mention of MJ partying and given he wasn't well liked and he was crazy driven, that's two fold and understandable. My impression is he was almost reclusive, but maybe he was more family oriented than he comes off. It's just fucken strange that aspect of his life is COMPLETELY excluded.
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MJ is prepared to let them run stuff around his gambling, his father's death, his aborted and ultimately failed tilt at baseball and generally allow himself to be portrayed as an asshole, but can't or won't talk about his ex? Hell, I'm not even 100% sure he has kids.
It's a fucking weird balance.
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@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
MJ is prepared to let them run stuff around his gambling, his father's death, his aborted and ultimately failed tilt at baseball and generally allow himself to be portrayed as an asshole, but can't or won't talk about his ex? Hell, I'm not even 100% sure he has kids.
It's a fucking weird balance.
His boys appeared in ep1
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@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
MJ is prepared to let them run stuff around his gambling, his father's death, his aborted and ultimately failed tilt at baseball and generally allow himself to be portrayed as an asshole, but can't or won't talk about his ex? Hell, I'm not even 100% sure he has kids.
It's a fucking weird balance.
He has never been shy with his family info. Anyone who has followed him closely over the years knows about his wife and boys.
Why does he need to go into it again for this doco???
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@voodoo said in NBA season 2019/20:
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
MJ is prepared to let them run stuff around his gambling, his father's death, his aborted and ultimately failed tilt at baseball and generally allow himself to be portrayed as an asshole, but can't or won't talk about his ex? Hell, I'm not even 100% sure he has kids.
It's a fucking weird balance.
He has never been shy with his family info. Anyone who has followed him closely over the years knows about his wife and boys.
Why does he need to go into it again for this doco???
I didn't really think it was relevant anyway. A bit of a waste of air time imho
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@voodoo said in NBA season 2019/20:
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
MJ is prepared to let them run stuff around his gambling, his father's death, his aborted and ultimately failed tilt at baseball and generally allow himself to be portrayed as an asshole, but can't or won't talk about his ex? Hell, I'm not even 100% sure he has kids.
It's a fucking weird balance.
He has never been shy with his family info. Anyone who has followed him closely over the years knows about his wife and boys.
Why does he need to go into it again for this doco???
Exactly. It's not really supposed to be all about Mike the man. It's really about his team and him as a baller.
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@junior said in NBA season 2019/20:
@voodoo said in NBA season 2019/20:
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
MJ is prepared to let them run stuff around his gambling, his father's death, his aborted and ultimately failed tilt at baseball and generally allow himself to be portrayed as an asshole, but can't or won't talk about his ex? Hell, I'm not even 100% sure he has kids.
It's a fucking weird balance.
He has never been shy with his family info. Anyone who has followed him closely over the years knows about his wife and boys.
Why does he need to go into it again for this doco???
Exactly. It's not really supposed to be all about Mike the man. It's really about his team and him as a baller.
This! His parents are there because they are part of the basketball story. Everyone else is superfluous
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@voodoo said in NBA season 2019/20:
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
MJ is prepared to let them run stuff around his gambling, his father's death, his aborted and ultimately failed tilt at baseball and generally allow himself to be portrayed as an asshole, but can't or won't talk about his ex? Hell, I'm not even 100% sure he has kids.
It's a fucking weird balance.
He has never been shy with his family info. Anyone who has followed him closely over the years knows about his wife and boys.
Why does he need to go into it again for this doco???
EVERYTHING else is covered.
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I should say, by no means would i want air time devoted to boring scenes showing Mike walking his kids to school, or laying in bed with a fat stogie after honing out the ex wife, but you'd think there would be something. It's one thing to say they're not part of the basketball story, but to not have featured - bar a brief appearance and one throwaway comnent - thus far in eight episodes which predominantly follow MJ, seems like a deliberate marginalisation.
Wouldn't MJ have said, hey, if you want balance in this doco which has me coming off largely as a prick, how about we show how much I love my kids? And while we're at it, I had some tough times off the court in my marriage too, so maybe that should be part of the narrative?
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@barbarian draft day is a great movie as Voodoo said. And I know what you mean but I think they are getting to the crux of what you’re talking about. At least they did in the last two eps. He’s a likeable guy off court. On the court and in practice he’s an axe murdering lunatic that probably makes it impossible to separate from his off court persona and therefore not very likeable.
Bill Wennington was pretty clear and succinct about that. He’s a jerk and an asshole. Steve Kerr was more diplomatic but I felt like He was uncomfortable with talking about that incident where MJ cracked him. He talked about earning MJ's respect but ultimately Kerr would have only lost respect for MJ. It’s going to be hard to stay friends or even become friends with anyone when you're competitive nature can not be switched off.
MJ’s type of fun revolves around competing and gambling as well. Who could afford to compete with him from the sporting fraternity?
I think he’s become even more of an asshole in public perception since Lebron started entering the GOAT picture. Not necessarily by any new actions but by what Lebron has done in the community and what he hasn’t. Lebron is so approachable and Jordan is a bit like Sinatra. He’s visible but kind of untouchable. People talk about how great he is but there’s a fear or unwritten law to not speak out about his shortcomings, by his peers.
I saw Ahmad Rashad talking with ErnieJohnson Jr and Charles Barkley yesterday about how Barkley and MJ were soul mates and then falling out. This was MJ's best basketball friend. And they are likely never going to talk to one another ever again. Because of his pigheadedness(and Chuck as admitted his own stubbornness).
At the end of ep 7 he breaks down and you can see he knows. He gave up being liked for championships.
And again that’s enough for me.
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@junior said in NBA season 2019/20:
@mariner4life said in NBA season 2019/20
I love watching these great teams and thinking about what can be learned from them and applied to rugby (specifically the ABs). Without having any specific knowledge, I'm looking at recent AB teams (last 4 years) and wondering if there has been a guy (or guys) like MJ consistently pushing high standards throughout the team and, more importantly, pushing them hard.I’m not sure it would even be possible. The truly psychopathically competitive athletes like Jordan, Steve Waugh or Michael Schumacher didn’t start out that way. They were competitive to be sure but it wasn’t until they were starved of winning for the first time in their lives for a little bit that they went troppo.
No one in that team had lost a World Cup and many won as bench or squad members in 2015. They didn’t seem to take the Lions series to heart. Maybe out of this it will light a fire under someone like McCaw after 2007 or Brooke/Fitzy after Athletic Park.
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Love this article about Gary Lineker and MJ:
I just watched episode eight of the wonderful The Last Dance. Thought I'd share the story of the day I played golf with Michael Jordan. It was a Thursday night and I got a call from my agent. He said: "I've had Michael Jordan's people on the phone and he wants to play at Sunningdale."
I was a member so he thought I could help. He said: "There's three of them: Michael and two of his basketball friends and they want to play on Sunday." I said: "If it's a Sunday they can't play without a member, but I can host them (too right, I could)."
So Saturday night I get call from my agent: "There's now six of them, two more friends and Samuel L Jackson."
"I'll need to find another member to play with the other three. I'll call my friend, Queeny (former European tour player and Sunningdale member), I'm sure he'll help."
Thankfully he was free and available. I turned up at 8.30am. Keith, the club pro said: "Your guests have arrived, they're on the putting green." There they were, six of them, five giant basketball players and Samuel L Jackson ambling around, putting and smoking cigars.
The observing, quintessentially white elderly members were wide-eyed. We introduced ourselves and headed to the first tee. Now my mate Queeny liked a bet on the golf course and was a bit of a hustler. So we're all stood there and Queeny says in his slightly posh voice....
"So Michael would you like bet, a little wager?" Michael says: "Sure, man." Queeny says: "So how much would you like to play for?" Michael puffs on his cigar, looks straight at him, smiles and says: "Whatever makes you feel uncomfortable, man."
Mr Jordan had already won the day.
