CWC Final - Black Caps v England
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@Nevorian said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@KiwiPie said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@hydro11 said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
The problem with the overthrows is I have never seen it ruled that way. I don't see why they would suddenly say it was only five runs because it is a final.
Because it is nearly always from a sprint for a quick single where they have crossed before the throw.
Do you think Kane was aware of the batsmen crossing rule as does not seem to be any mention of him asking umpires if it should have been 5 or 6 and which batsmen should be facing the next delivery?
Based on what i've read from interviews, he did query the amount of runs counted initially before the umpires made their final decision after consulting with the third umpire
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@SynicBast said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Cyclops said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
That would mean that Stokes would have been awarded the second but not the boundary. Seems a fair outcom.
except they hadn't crossed at the time the ball was thrown in, which is the specified point at which the law states a run can be counted in the case of an overthrow
That was in a hypothetical future rule change where the ball is dead if it hits a batsman after a fielder returns the ball, so the boundary overthrow rule doesn't apply.
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So if Stokes made the case, Kane queried, and the umpires apparently consulted with the third umpire...how the fark did they settle on the decision for 6 runs from the overthrow??
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@Siam said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B umm, what scenario is that?
Should add that all completed runs before the hit are counted and if no run after the batsman is hit to account for the dubious scenario of fielders throwing at batsmen to prevent a run???
If hit trying complete the first run (single), ball rebowled might work
A scenario I can't see happening, what if the fielder trying to save runs by hitting the batsman, misses? Team going to be happy with non backed up overthrows?
Not much of a percentage play that one, unless there's something I'm missing.
One run to win - ball driven gently to a mid on in line with the stumps. Fielder's got one stump to aim at to tie - or a large oncoming batsman to buy another ball - boom!!!
World Cup on the line - I'd definitely throw at Gatting!
Edit: or anyone playing for East-Christchurch-Shirley!
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Imagine if, runs tied, England had 13 fours and 2 sixes across regular match + super over. And we had 10 fours and 4 sixes. Both teams have same runs, and same total runs from boundaries (64).
England still win on number of boundaries (15 vs 14), even though we have more sixes.
The boundary rule is presumably there to encourage more aggressive/swashbuckling play, but isn't even coherent in how it does that! It assumes boundaries are "better" than 1s and 2s, but not necessarily that 6s are better than 4s given the above. So it's completely ridiculous.
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@TeWaio The boundary rule was introduced to determine the winner in a tied super over in T20s, and it makes sense in that format of the game I suppose. The clowns at the ICC probably never envisaged this happening in a ODI CWC semi or final so applied the same rule to ODIs. Makes zero sense in the 50 over format.
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@TeWaio said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Imagine if, runs tied, England had 13 fours and 2 sixes across regular match + super over. And we had 10 fours and 4 sixes. Both teams have same runs, and same total runs from boundaries (64).
England still win on number of boundaries (15 vs 14), even though we have more sixes.
The boundary rule is presumably there to encourage more aggressive/swashbuckling play, but isn't even coherent in how it does that! It assumes boundaries are "better" than 1s and 2s, but not necessarily that 6s are better than 4s given the above. So it's completely ridiculous.
especially when in todays cricket a lot of the ones and twos are saved right on the boundary
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@akan004 said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@TeWaio The boundary rule was introduced to determine the winner in a tied super over in T20s, and it makes sense in that format of the game I suppose. The clowns at the ICC probably never envisaged this happening in a ODI CWC semi or final so applied the same rule to ODIs. Makes zero sense in the 50 over format.
Still don't reckon it makes sense for T20s, given my above example regarding 4s and 6s.
If they want to have this stupid rule (and they shouldn't), it should be "total runs scored from boundaries" not "total number of boundaries".
That way 6s are worth 1.5x 4s, i.e. like in the ACTUAL GAME. ICC need to give themselves an uppercut.
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I had a real struggle not punching out a half English freshman who brought out the video of the Stokes overthrow to show me during class today. Gloating little shit.
I Kaned it though “great game, that’s sport etc etc”
Only just but.
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@gt12 said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
I had a real struggle not punching out a half English freshman who brought out the video of the Stokes overthrow to show me during class today. Gloating little shit.
I Kaned it though “great game, that’s sport etc etc”
Only just but.
The verb to "Kane". Love it.
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We were rorted!
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@Donsteppa said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
So it was more than me just feeling sulky about it all...
I'm trying to figure out the 26 "lucky events for the opposition" in that table. Munro was selected 9 times which is a good start, and there were about 5 in the final, but outside of that Taylor/Kane run out back to the bowler I'm struggling to come up with the others.
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'Luck' includes the catches we dropped. Which I guess is good luck for the opposition batsman but hardly unlucky for us.
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A run, a run! My kingdom for one run!!
The five stages of loss are progressing glacially...
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@Donsteppa it's going to hurt indefinitely I'm afraid. The only salve will be a win at a future WC.
But what are the chances that there is a similar situation when they tour here!! wonder if the TAB will offer that option... hmmm maybe not. I'm sure they don't want their offices burnt down!
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Sneakdefreakreplied to Donsteppa on 18 Jul 2019, 03:41 last edited by Sneakdefreak 18 Jul 2019, 03:42
@Donsteppa said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
A run, a run! My kingdom for one run!!
The five stages of loss are progressing glacially...
I'm at peace with the game being a tie and that's how it should/will be remembered, not the rule created by an ex-billionaire now spending life in prison for corruption and fraud.
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@Paekakboyz said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Donsteppa it's going to hurt indefinitely I'm afraid. The only salve will be a win at a future WC.
But what are the chances that there is a similar situation when they tour here!! wonder if the TAB will offer that option... hmmm maybe not. I'm sure they don't want their offices burnt down!
There's been a lot of good comparisons to All Black RWC losses, but in some ways it reminds me of the feeling when Crowe was out for 299. That sense of how hard it was to get so close, and just how long it might be until the next chance.
I'd knight Sir BMac for finally giving closure to that 299 itch...
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@Donsteppa said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Paekakboyz said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Donsteppa it's going to hurt indefinitely I'm afraid. The only salve will be a win at a future WC.
But what are the chances that there is a similar situation when they tour here!! wonder if the TAB will offer that option... hmmm maybe not. I'm sure they don't want their offices burnt down!
There's been a lot of good comparisons to All Black RWC losses, but in some ways it reminds me of the feeling when Crowe was out for 299. That sense of how hard it was to get so close, and just how long it might be until the next chance.
I'd knight Sir BMac for finally giving closure to that 299 itch...
God, what a moment that was (Baz's ton).
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@Cyclops @Donsteppa an emotional cricketing moment. When you think about Crowe and all he did and to not have that fortune of getting the triple and then a proud guy like Baz doing it, makes it one of the great NZ moments.
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@Donsteppa said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
There's been a lot of good comparisons to All Black RWC losses, but in some ways it reminds me of the feeling when Crowe was out for 299. That sense of how hard it was to get so close, and just how long it might be until the next chance.
2013 America's Cup also felt had a similar feeling of technical BS after the match winning race was flagged down with Barker in the lead and that there wouldn't be another campaign from a strictly financial sense.
But then at least Oracle won one more race over the tie, and technical BS is essentially the name of the game in yachting.
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JFC, we have some fucked up people in this country.
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I know Ben Stokes has promised to apologise for the rest of his life for those deflected overthrows, but it will still be a very frosty morning in hell before I’d back a New Zealander of the Year award for him...
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@Mokey said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
JFC, we have some fucked up people in this country.
Comes across a bit desperate, imo.
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@Mokey a quick google (again didn't even read the links) suggests that his wife has contracted cancer and he quit his job to be her caregiver.
Now while this is laudable and the situation must be tragic for those directly concerned, I don't think it is NZer of the year worthy any more than a nifty paso doble is.
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@dogmeat Abdul Aziz will win NZer of the Year. Throwing an eftpos machine at a terrorist is far more impressive than deflecting a ball with your cricket bat. Actually throwing an eftpos machine at anything is more impressive full stop.
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@dogmeat said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Mokey a quick google (again didn't even read the links) suggests that his wife has contracted cancer and he quit his job to be her caregiver.
Now while this is laudable and the situation must be tragic for those directly concerned, I don't think it is NZer of the year worthy any more than a nifty paso doble is.
Yeah I'm sure there could well be hundreds of people in NZ doing the same as Barnett, just not broadcasting it to the country.
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@Sneakdefreak said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@dogmeat Abdul Aziz will win NZer of the Year. Throwing an eftpos machine at a terrorist is far more impressive than deflecting a ball with your cricket bat. Actually throwing an eftpos machine at anything is more impressive full stop.
Heard a great suggestion recently.
If the “crusaders” name is too offensive, let’s rename the team the “Canterbury eftpos machine hurlers”
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@Bones said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@dogmeat said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Mokey a quick google (again didn't even read the links) suggests that his wife has contracted cancer and he quit his job to be her caregiver.
Now while this is laudable and the situation must be tragic for those directly concerned, I don't think it is NZer of the year worthy any more than a nifty paso doble is.
Yeah I'm sure there could well be hundreds of people in NZ doing the same as Barnett, just not broadcasting it to the country.
Him and Phil Gifford are actually good value on Newstalk ZB on long car rides I have to say. The latter is amazingly good if you disassociate him from the bloke who writes all that Crusader wank.
But no, Simon Barnett doesn’t deserve to be NZer of the year.
Give it to KW. The rest are joke nominations compared to him.
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When the captain of the winning side doesn't feel good about how the game was decided then I think that's a pretty clear indication that the ICC fucked up badly.
Surely the most obvious solution is to keep playing super overs until a winner is found. At least that way the game is decided by the players in the moment rather than some arbitrary calculation.
If TV stations don't want billions of people around the world staying tuned in for an extra 10 or 20 minutes then they've got rocks in their head.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12251249
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@No-Quarter it's not fair for either team to finish like that. Morgan and his team don't deserve to feel that way in what should be the greatest moment of their sporting lives. But part of them will feel a little guilty for the rest of their lives, or until they win another one in a less controversial way. And of course it's not fair on the runners up either
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Still not over it.
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@SynicBast said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Still not over it.
Yep, this one is going to gnaw away until such time as if/when we actually win the thing.
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These articles don't help either!
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I strongly favour settling the whole thing within the 50 overs. A super over after a month of cricket, a super over ain't far removed from a coin toss.
Have contingencies for a tie.
Cricket is half batting and half bowling and fielding. You gotta do both to win a game. Top of the hierarchy is runs, so in the event of a tie, simply turn to the other half of cricket and it's about wickets lost. For sure I have to wear this if 8 and all out was reversed. Actually I thought it was wickets. Wickets is best because everyone knows them in real time.
If wickets and runs tied, then find something else in that particular game, could be boundaries, anything that reflects that day's performances.
A shared title isn't the end of the world either, or better yet another game tomorrow. See how our sporting principles get walked over due to tv schedules and marketing?
Nothing wrong with the notion of 2 combatants ferociously going toe to toe, can't be separated, so shake hands and go home friends and champs. Not the worst message to send to an increasingly selfish society
No, I'm not over it yet either...
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