CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan
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If we really think other players were options, why haven’t they been selected to date?
I think our selectors are conservative and whilst the whole not disturbing a winning team might hold some water, given the individual nature of a sport like cricket, you have to look at individual performance and make the hard calls.
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@LABCAT said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Cyclops said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
Latham has been tried as an opener and has failed. And not just failed, but ruined his form in other roles. He's well-suited to batting in the middle order, lack of form not withstanding (and moving up to open won't help that). I think it's Nicholls or Munro.
If you look at his record he was actually quite good at opening:
Opening and keeping at the same time was terrible for him though. Looking at his record we are actually wasting him down at 5, moving him back to opener and finding another keeper could be a good idea.
Neesham looks like he is playing well enough to bat at five so perhaps we could bring in Blundell to bat six or seven. Can't see this happening though.
Both these are viable options. The irony of Latham opening, Neesham to five and Blundell in though would be we'd be attempting to fix our batting by doing everything but selecting the extra batsman in the squad.
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@rotated said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@shark said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
We could try him at the top in the dasher role
That horse has bolted, and having seen how most of the pitches have played this tournament wickets in hand looks to be a more viable strategy than trying to get the hot start.
Tactically the batting line up picks itself from the middle out. It's all about putting Kane and Taylor in the best position possible to play a match winning knock and for me that means putting as much legitimate quality batting behind those two in the order as possible to ease the pressure on that partnership and whoever is left patting with the lower order. There are a couple of ways to do that...
Latham to open and Nicholls at 5 seems like the most natural solution.
I would be more out of the box and take a similar approach to 2003 where one of the opening slots was a tire fire and Flem punted it completely and put Vettori and then McMillan there. Put the spinning all-rounder in there to open with Guppy, then have a deep tail of Nicholls, Latham, Neesham, CdG behind Taylor/Williamson. Pick your poison. If they set 280/6 and fall 30 short of par and get beaten so be it... that is preferable to yet another CWC knock-out game where the top order fails and the middle order has to perform triage through to a undefendable total.
Henry out, Southee in - although not much conviction. He is an opening bowler and Williamson had no faith in him today, and who can blame him after the Windies game.
Thanks for refuting something I'd already refuted as my post continued!
No thanks to Southee and no thank you sir to the idea of Santner opening the batting.
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@Darren said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
Drop Monroe, bring in Blundell or Nicholls, open with anyone, will still be better than Monroe.
Something has to change, I cannot understand why they don't when we do have options.
Cos Stead's a moron.
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@akan004 said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Darren said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
Drop Monroe, bring in Blundell or Nicholls, open with anyone, will still be better than Monroe.
Something has to change, I cannot understand why they don't when we do have options.
Cos Stead's a moron.
This is the first touring side Stead has selected.
Hesson has to take some blame for leaving on the eve of a world cup and for whatever reason thinking he needed to pick a side in July for a tour in November that he would not be on.
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jesus H Christ, you whinging bastards
Black Caps got outplayed on the day by a very capable, yet erratic Pakistan oin front of the biggest home crowd any Paki team has played before in the last 10 years.
The same Black caps who, despite living on a diet of Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, have all but qualified, got through the banana skins, beat SA and WI, and all the while not firing on all cylinders - fark, there was a time when we'd get beat redlining it!
Nah, the lads don't need us all climbing in like Aussies. Kane don't need us climbing in Aussies. Boys need some staunch eyebrow raises to hammer home something they already know - we gotta play good otherwise we lose. Neesh and Zim Colin nailed that.
As for the pitch, at the toss there was about 300 years of cricket experience all saying they would have batted. Leading that opinion was Sarfraz and all the rest, Baz, Wasim, Raja, Hussein all concurring before a ball had been bowled.
As for selection, sure there are obvious concerns, but just as sure, our Kane is calling the shots in this cricket team. If Kane wants a player in the 11, that guy plays, surely. Who would over rule Williamson?
As a Stead, you don't wade in Bracewell/Turner style into this team and start running everything at your first WC, well I don't think so, anyway
So fuck it, that was a tricky game and that atmosphere (what I saw of it) made it uniquely hard, a good experience perhaps? Flush the Dunny and look forward to cracking the Aussies, who do have a coach (and ponting) that you better well effin listen to and who will make all the calls.
Play that game with no fear
Come on Lads!
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@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
all but qualified,
That's all I'm reading at the moment.
There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.
Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.
Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievement -
@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
all but qualified,
That's all I'm reading at the moment.
There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.
Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.
Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievementDisagree.
Semis is a win for me; we're at least at par for this tournament based on how we've performed. Any wins at knockout stage is an overachievement for me.
Come on you Black Caps
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@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
all but qualified,
That's all I'm reading at the moment.
There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.
Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.
Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievementDisagree.
Semis is a win for me; we're at least at par for this tournament based on how we've performed. Any wins at knockout stage is an overachievement for me.
Come on you Black Caps
Disagree. Given the quality of our side, the quality of the other sides, and how the tournament is playing out, to miss the semis is a fail. On the flip side, to make the final would be a massive success.
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@mariner4life said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
all but qualified,
That's all I'm reading at the moment.
There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.
Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.
Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievementDisagree.
Semis is a win for me; we're at least at par for this tournament based on how we've performed. Any wins at knockout stage is an overachievement for me.
Come on you Black Caps
Disagree. Given the quality of our side, the quality of the other sides, and how the tournament is playing out, to miss the semis is a fail. On the flip side, to make the final would be a massive success.
Very true. There's really not much in it. We still SHOULD make the semis but beating Australia and India in successive games ? Fucken huge ask.
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@mariner4life said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
all but qualified,
That's all I'm reading at the moment.
There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.
Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.
Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievementDisagree.
Semis is a win for me; we're at least at par for this tournament based on how we've performed. Any wins at knockout stage is an overachievement for me.
Come on you Black Caps
Disagree. Given the quality of our side, the quality of the other sides, and how the tournament is playing out, to miss the semis is a fail. On the flip side, to make the final would be a massive success.
Dude, lower your standards
Seriously, I think we're not as good as the top 3 in the game; fourth at best. Then we're in the wash with SA, Pakistan and Sri Lanka (and arguably a motivated Windies). We haven't disgraced ourselves, but ultimately getting to the semis will depend on some results potentially going our way. Before the tournament I thought we'd be a starters chance only against the big three, and nothing I've seen has changed my view.
Therefore, if we get there it's a bonus; but if we miss out it's not a disaster - just that we didn't quite get results falling our way, and didn't play as well as we could in some games.
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We've got Boult, Kane, Ross and Guppy firmly in a top level of talent. But it's our next couple of levels that mean we aren't a top 3 team imo. I do think we are closer to top three than the tier of teams below that (SA, Pakistan). But we are so dependent on our B-C level guys to contribute when we come up against the top 3 teams. Our big guns carry us a lot but they do need help from time to time.
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@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@mariner4life said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
all but qualified,
That's all I'm reading at the moment.
There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.
Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.
Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievementDisagree.
Semis is a win for me; we're at least at par for this tournament based on how we've performed. Any wins at knockout stage is an overachievement for me.
Come on you Black Caps
Disagree. Given the quality of our side, the quality of the other sides, and how the tournament is playing out, to miss the semis is a fail. On the flip side, to make the final would be a massive success.
Dude, lower your standards
Seriously, I think we're not as good as the top 3 in the game; fourth at best. Then we're in the wash with SA, Pakistan and Sri Lanka (and arguably a motivated Windies). We haven't disgraced ourselves, but ultimately getting to the semis will depend on some results potentially going our way. Before the tournament I thought we'd be a starters chance only against the big three, and nothing I've seen has changed my view.
Therefore, if we get there it's a bonus; but if we miss out it's not a disaster - just that we didn't quite get results falling our way, and didn't play as well as we could in some games.
no, i have followed this side closely for a long time, my standards are appropriate.
We are better than SA, the Windies, and SL, and thus we beat all of those teams. We are in a fight with Pakistan to make it in to 4th, i will be very disappointed if they miss it.
The cricketing world saw the Pakistan result as an upset, i do to.
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@Bovidae said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
England needs to beat India, otherwise they can't overtake us before we play eachother.
@MN5 re your post in the other thread.
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@Paekakboyz said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
We've got Boult, Kane, Ross and Guppy firmly in a top level of talent. But it's our next couple of levels that mean we aren't a top 3 team imo. I do think we are closer to top three than the tier of teams below that (SA, Pakistan). But we are so dependent on our B-C level guys to contribute when we come up against the top 3 teams. Our big guns carry us a lot but they do need help from time to time.
Absolutely this. Just because Guptill and Boult are under-performing is not a free pass to the side to just miss the finals.
Yes, we have a massive hole at 2, and 5, and are a death bowler light. That's why we are not close to tournament favourites. But the fact is, players are under-performing. That should not be excused.
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@mariner4life said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Paekakboyz said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:
We've got Boult, Kane, Ross and Guppy firmly in a top level of talent. But it's our next couple of levels that mean we aren't a top 3 team imo. I do think we are closer to top three than the tier of teams below that (SA, Pakistan). But we are so dependent on our B-C level guys to contribute when we come up against the top 3 teams. Our big guns carry us a lot but they do need help from time to time.
Absolutely this. Just because Guptill and Boult are under-performing is not a free pass to the side to just miss the finals.
Yes, we have a massive hole at 2, and 5, and are a death bowler light. That's why we are not close to tournament favourites. But the fact is, players are under-performing. That should not be excused.
Thank fuck our captain is leading from the front like he is.
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